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Anonymous Poster #1

Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

11/29/2023 9:10 AM

My understanding of Voltage harmonics:

When nonlinear loads draw non-sinusoidal current waveforms from the power supply, these current waveforms encounter the impedance of the power distribution system. As a result, the distorted current waveforms lead to the generation of distorted voltage waveforms due to the impedance of the system. Therefore voltage harmonics are created by current harmonics and not vice versa.

Is my understanding right?

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#1

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

11/29/2023 11:02 AM

Which came first: the chicken or the egg?

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

11/30/2023 11:37 AM

The egg of a bird closely related to a chicken came first.

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#2

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

11/29/2023 1:21 PM

Exactly.

The non-linearity of your load produces current harmonics. If the source impedance were zero (which it never is), you would see no voltage harmonics measured at the load.

The voltage harmonics are due to the voltage drop across the source impedance of the power distribution system.

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#3

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

11/29/2023 6:21 PM

Yes.

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#5

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

11/30/2023 11:54 AM

Your valid analysis procedure does not identify the timing sequences for voltage, current, or even load waveforms at any point in these transmission lines.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

11/30/2023 8:06 PM

One way to look at it...

The circuit is: Generator -- transmission line impedance -- nonlinear load

There are voltage harmonics at the non-linear load but not at the generator. If the transmission line impedance is linear (i.e. not a function of voltage), the voltage harmonics can only come from current harmonics generated in the non-linear load.

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#7

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

12/03/2023 12:55 PM

I have a different take. Harmonics is a natural occurrence with current. When current is established, a current M field is established. ANY change in current causes charge spin at that rate of change, this is the first spin. And that first spin causes repeated integer concentric spins. This is a natural current dynamic. Current is self reactive. Because it has electric charge and it has magnetic charge. E and M alignment.

Changing current has a longer path than steady current because of that spin. Changing current causes it's own delay. Because of that longer path. Multiple spins, multiple delays. But all in phase with first spin.

A cap(or opposite wound coil) inverts that spin. And can nullify that spin. Each spin has it's own impedance.

A coil can amplify and wind that spin and a cap can unwind and nullify that spin. And can frequency select a straight path for current. OR, equality of spin. Resonance.

A cap inverts, but also has spin. The opposite spin that is fed into it.

Charge alignment and charge spin is the true dynamic of current. Not the flow of it, it doesn't go far. Current is an intermittent flux. The flux alignment and rotation is the motion of current.....not the flow.

This is the way I see it. But most see it differently.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

01/17/2024 10:46 PM

I presume that you are using the term "cap" to mean "capacitor". That is NOT necessarily obvious, especially to those whose first language is not English. A cap could well be a more-or-less cup-shaped object placed over an end of a coil, either conductive or not, ferromagnetic or not. There are undoubtedly other possible interpretations.

You've mentioned the spin concept quite a few times. I'm not quite in a position to say you're wrong, but I'm definitely among the "most", who see it differently.

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#9

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

01/18/2024 12:07 AM

You might see this for yourself, but it's messy. Make up a batch of ferrofluid and put it in a large flat pan/dish----work area. Use low freq AC-----1 to 15 Hz-----so your eyes can catch it. Place the circuit conductors in the fluid. You can also use DC and a series pot and turn it quickly to see this.

You can add a cap and coil in series above the fluid......and check out the spins on the input and output of the cap and coil. If you have an air cap, and air coil, submerge the entire circuit.

Design test circuit appropriately for test equipment.

A function generator or a 6-12 v battery should do. But the battery can supply more quick current without damage.

You might want to do this in the garage. It's a mess.

If one doesn't need a lot of convincing, one can watch youtube videos of this. Charge flow and charge formation on a wire. It spirals. It's twisty "torquey". A spring.

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#10

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

01/18/2024 2:26 AM

Not only non linear loads but long transmission lines with their capacitive and inductive impedance can generate harmonics. I my first year apprenticeship I was given the task of making harmonic filters to go on long SWER isolator transformers.

The Interference generated was in the 5th, 7th and 11th harmonic whichcoincided with the lower end of the telephone line frequencies at 250, 350, and 550 Hz for aour 50 Hz system.

They were an air cored coil and an oil filled capacitor and we were told that they worked on the long rural line. Of course with mobile phones now it would not be a problem but with wired ones it certainly was.

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#11

Re: Current Harmonics Versus Voltage Harmonics

01/29/2024 1:04 PM
  • Therefore voltage harmonics are created by current harmonics and not vice versa.

Well, sort of, if you are thinking of a purely linear time frame perspective.

But if there are EXISTING voltage harmonics on a utility line, they will exacerbate any current harmonic distortions taking place in a user’s facility, and in that way, cause added voltage distortion. This is the reason why IEEE-519 applies to BOTH the utility and the user. The user must correct the voltage distortion caused by their current distortion. But the utility must also not DELIVER power with more than the allowable voltage distortion in the first place. The utility however has little direct control over the cause of the distortion, so the solution always lands at the feet of the user.

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