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Initial Motion

01/04/2024 3:01 AM
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#1

Re: initial motion

01/04/2024 3:17 AM

If there was no previous action, there could be no resulting action...it seems...but what about quantum uncertainty...

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: initial motion

01/04/2024 8:05 AM

In other words, zero motion is impossible. An object with zero momentum would be located everywhere...

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#23
In reply to #2

Re: initial motion

01/10/2024 8:44 AM

imo, Motion is relative…

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#27
In reply to #23

Re: initial motion

01/27/2024 11:58 AM

Exactly!According to A.E. also.

Everything is relative.

I takes at least two objects to detect motion,and it takes space for them to move in,and space itself(distance) is determined from the speed of light being the yardstick.

Space and time cannot be separated.

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#28
In reply to #23

Re: initial motion

01/27/2024 1:22 PM

Leave my family out of this.

English is such a wonderfully ambiguous language.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: initial motion

01/27/2024 7:10 PM

As opposed to a dead language like Latin.

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#30
In reply to #28

Re: initial motion

01/28/2024 4:19 AM

Even aunt holes are relative.Without them,we would have no cousins.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: initial motion

01/04/2024 10:46 AM

The uncertainty is a result of man's ignorance,not the actual condition of the object being observed.It has a definite position and speed...but I am not certain about that...

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#4

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 10:49 AM

What happened to my original post?

It only displays the bottom portion of my posting.

People are replying to it,so it was there at one time.

It has been deleted,but I did not do it..at least not on purpose.

What happened?

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 12:17 PM

Re-post it, please.

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 4:33 PM

I never saw the first part either. Please repost it.

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#11
In reply to #4

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 7:12 PM

Obviously,my posting created a reaction somewhere that resulted in the deleting of the text.I am pretty certain of that...I think.

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#6

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 12:19 PM

Seems your initial post had motion; moved right off the thread.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 4:22 PM

It's existence was uncertain...

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 7:08 PM

Yes,but who\what pushed it?

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#38
In reply to #6

Re: Initial Motion

02/07/2024 10:14 AM

...and against what (need-to-know basis)?

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#9

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 7:06 PM

Ok,

Here is the initial posting question,paraphrased:

Newton stated that every action is accompanied by an equal and opposite reaction.Therefor there can only be reactions to a previous action.A long sequence of dominoes that branch in infinite directions over time.Even the "Big Bang" had a prior action to make it go "Bang". Everything around us is a reaction,and most are considered random,but they are not.Random is the word we use when things are too complicated for us to analyze.

So what pushed the first "domino"?

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 8:36 PM

Unfortunately, as much as we hate the idea, the universe seems to be undeterministic. When we are dealing with huge numbers of particles, in the average, cause and effect are connected with an accuracy of as many decimal places as we can measure.

We can calculate how long it takes for half of a 1 pound lump of uranium to decay, but cannot determine whether a particular atom will decay next week or in billions of years.

https://www.wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2022/08/11/how-can-radioactive-decay-just-happen-with-nothing-triggering-it/#:~:text=The%20exact%20moment%20that%20radioactive,that%20nothing%20triggers%20vacuum%20fluctuations.

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#20
In reply to #12

Re: Initial Motion

01/05/2024 8:22 PM

Our universe is indeed defined by our ability to measure it,but we cannot measure everything that is in the greater universe,outside of our measurement ability.

We live inside of a sphere of observation,yet we understand that there is more that exists beyond our present abilities,and our sphere is expanding as our abilities expand.And the universe is expanding faster than our abilities,so we will always be chasing the carrot on the stick.How wonderful is the chase!

We cannot determine every molecule in a cloud,at present time,but every molecule in motion is a reaction,we just do not have the ability to calculate or observe these other reactions.Same with radioactive decay.It is called random because we cannot determine all the variables.

Our sphere was once much smaller,with the Earth at the center and as we progressed,we discovered more and more and enlarged our sphere;And it is still expanding. Who can predict what we we learn in the next 100 years,or 1000 years?

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 9:54 PM

The model that is Newton's Laws (remember George Box), only applies in our universe. If anything existed before the formation of our universe then in that realm Newton's Laws need not apply.

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#14
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Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 10:03 PM

Obviously we are not seeing the whole picture...perhaps this hidden information is contained in other dimensions...

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#15
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Re: Initial Motion

01/04/2024 10:33 PM

As humans on this planet, we have only developed senses that aid us in survival in this environment, to me it seems possible there are other senses that might have been available had our environment been different...that leaves the possibility that there could be things, or phenomena,, that we don't normally interact with that we have no knowledge of....If we can't see it, touch it, smell it, feel it, hear it,,,, how do we know it exists?...we measure the effect and guess the rest....

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#16
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Re: Initial Motion

01/05/2024 1:08 AM

GA! One example is the non-visible (to humans) parts of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Cats can definitely see lower frequencies (Infra-Red) than normal humans, so it's quite possible that other animals can sense even lower frequencies than cats.

I'm pretty sure that I have experienced ESP at least a couple of times, and the only way I can conceive of that occurring is utilizing some unknown portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Initial Motion

01/05/2024 2:37 PM

I agree. Another example might be infrasound, or sound with frequency below 20 Hertz. Wind blowing past an obstacle can generate these sounds. The frequency is too low for hearing, but the vibration can be felt within the body, causing nausea or feeling of "dread". People sometimes associate this with places that are "haunted".

https://www.journalstandard.com/story/news/local/2019/10/14/is-it-haunting-infrasound/2533389007/

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3077192

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#25
In reply to #19

Re: Initial Motion

01/10/2024 3:14 PM

Dark matter and dark energy, we don't know what it is, or if it really exists...gravity is another one, we can feel the effect...radio waves, electromagnetism, electricity for that matter....we can see and feel the effects, but it took a while to figure out what it was...still sorta fuzzy to most....

It used to be considered magic...I think it all started by trying to turn lead into gold....

Nowadays you can just sell your lead and exchange it for gold...of course you need about a tonne of lead to get an ounce of gold....so not very efficient

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#26
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Re: Initial Motion

01/10/2024 5:53 PM

But one can turn lead into gold.

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#17
In reply to #9

Re: Initial Motion

01/05/2024 5:17 AM
  • Newton's accompaniment is simultaneous, and static.
  • Whatever <...pushed the first "domino"...> is sequential, and dynamic. Modern theories conceive that time began at that spot and that the day did not have a yesterday.

The two are related, though not comparable.

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#18
In reply to #9

Re: Initial Motion

01/05/2024 11:28 AM

Reactions that may have been just in the mind as perceived by the person.. Could be just a rationalized differentiation in one's mind.....

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#21

Re: Initial Motion

01/07/2024 11:56 AM

Define motion. Have you ever had a class or lecture about motion? They have classes on all kinds of motion. Falling motion, colliding motion, emission motion and spinning motion.

But how about a definition of motion. We have all types of motion, but what is it? Motion is energy. Energy is a simple property, not an entity. All things have this property, the property of motion.

And all physical entities have this property......a perpetual property. The physical entities are always in motion. It can never be stopped. Zero temp does NOT stop motion. Zero only removes external motion, the jiggle of environmental fields. Zero does not remove the internal jiggle. The internal jiggle is what keeps mass and matter together. This happens at zero too.

MOTION(energy) is not conserved. The non conserved motion gives us a blanket of static thru-out space.

All electrons and protons come with the same amount of material. We call it e. The inertia of that material can be varied with motion. NOT the amount of material....it's the motion of the material that gives us the illusion of mass and matter. Mass and matter are confined motions.

Energy is any and all motion, mass is confined motion. And we can ratio it. Mass and matter is NOT an amount of material.......it's the amount of motion of the material.

We have the ability to study and define it, but we will never know how it all started. Because one causal event can cause millions of reactions. Which in turn, revert to causal actions.

AND it is impossible to determine what this material is. For it is the only material there is......and we have nothing left to compare it to. All of man's knowledge is comparative knowledge. Our knowledge is this to that, without knowing what this and that truly are.

Some questions can be answered and some questions can not be answered. The how, the when and the why all this started, or even if it had a start, can NOT be answered.

Lot's of time and money is wasted on this.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Initial Motion

01/07/2024 3:33 PM

Motion is the relative position of two or more objects.Motion cannot be measured without a reference.Space is required for the objects to occupy.

Time is actually a measure of space.We measure time with distance on a basic level and vice versa.

Light years,etc.still,it is a measure of relative position of the observer and the object.

One could not measure anything without motion,which is a measure of space vs time.

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#24

Re: Initial Motion

01/10/2024 11:26 AM

All relative motion......is absolute motion. Bound by omnipresent time and length. All motion is absolute motion. Motion can be nothing else.

A constant velocity is impossible. For nothing is at rest. The area of velocity needs to be still for a constant velocity.

Space-time is a convenient, lazy and cheap theory, for nothing can be measured with it. Any displacement measurement is useless.

No previous concepts have any meaning with space-time. A fantasy thought science. Pure fiction. A purely mathematical solution. Math is born of motion, motion is not a result of math.

An abdication of intellect and curiosity. The great bummer of wonderment.

IMO.

Mass is not an amount, it's the state of motion, of a set and constant amount.

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#31

Re: Initial Motion

02/04/2024 12:23 PM

The first reported motion(action) was light. From several sources. The emitter receives NO reaction from this action. All respects to Newton.

Physics mysteries can be solved by watching a hay baler. I use to ponder those deep red shifts and the velocities they suggest. So then I thought perhaps it's gravity causing this. And of course the present solution is expanding space. Expanding space would satisfy the physics without breakage of it.

But space has no physicality or properties in which to vary. For me this was the most hair brained solution ever.

But I have found my solution. From baling hay. A square hay baler drops bales of hay on the field. The hay bales are the same size. And when the velocity of the baler changes, the only thing that changes is the space between the bales. It's kind of an inversion of pulse width modulation.

Space width modulation. With a constant duration "on" time. A natural occurrence with a moving emitter.

Duty cycle light. Only varied by the "off" time. The space time.

Very deep shifts. With under c velocities. And no space expansion needed.

A duty cycle shift, with a constant on time, not a sinewave shift. This is very asymmetrical For our instruments and our calculations.

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Initial Motion

02/04/2024 2:07 PM

Who reported the first motion and to whom?

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: Initial Motion

02/06/2024 12:18 PM

If you believe the bible:In Genesis: In the beginning there was the void,and darkness was upon the face of the deep.Then God said "Let there be light,and there was light"

Not exactly scientific,but it appears to reflect modern theories of the big bang,along with the other generations of creation mentioned there..In Genesis, Creation was put into terms humans could understand; Days,etc,and each could have been billions of years between.To a timeless Entity,time is irrelevant.

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#39
In reply to #36

Re: Initial Motion

02/07/2024 12:20 PM

Once again the theologic bias of the Big Bang scientific theory reappears. Many people forget a catholic priest was part of the initial proposal. Many people also forget that the theory does not address whatever happened before the explosion nor if any of the universal laws existed until the Bang created a universe.

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#33

Re: Initial Motion

02/04/2024 4:48 PM

Some of our cultural creation stories, at that time all there was was stories, and some of our newest scientific theories(more stories?) go along these lines although the light might not have been visible. A different color light.

This is pure conjecture and the only evidence for this proposal is a baled hay field.

Some think in bathtubs some think in hay fields.

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: Initial Motion

02/04/2024 9:51 PM

And pray tell: What evidence was found in the baled hay field, and to which scientific theories did that evidence relate?

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#35

Re: Initial Motion

02/05/2024 9:26 AM

The frequency is defined as one on time(bale) and one off time(space between bales). This is duty cycle frequency.

In a hay field, if the tractor is going at a constant velocity, The frequency would be the length of the bale....plus the space to the next bale.

Therefore.....if tractor is at same speed, space between bales will be equal. AND can be adjusted and set by tractor speed. If tractor goes slow, little space between bales. if tractor goes fast, large space between bales.

IF the tractor is accelerating.....each sequential space will be longer.......and if tractor is decelerating....each sequential space will be shorter. Chirping.

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#37

Re: Initial Motion

02/07/2024 10:03 AM

The ONLY circumstance where light would have the same velocity to all observers is if all objects had zero velocity. Perfectly still.

So, light does not have a constant velocity.......But it does have a constant length. Even expanding space could not change that length.

The only thing that changes with motion is the distance, and therefore the time, between those constant lengths.

Space width modulation. Light is a duty cycle, not a symmetric frequency. The only time light is symmetrical, is when there is no relative motion. A 50% duty cycle. Changing the duty cycle with space, is much different than shifting a sine wave. Shifting sound is symmetrical, shifted light is not. Only the "off time" of the duty cycle changes.

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