Solar Battery Versus Car Battery

Solar is not a dependable source of electricity...and it's expensive, and requires a lot of space and storage and a dozen other reasons...

I don't think this is what he was asking. I think he was asking why car batteries are not used instead of lithium batteries for the storage that solar and wind require. In other words, relative costs between the two battery types.

Well I think they are developing Flow batteries for that purpose....

https://news.mit.edu/2023/flow-batteries-grid-scale-energy-storage-0407

Thanks SE for that website. I knew virtually nothing about flow batteries, but now I can maybe be called an amateur!

I believe the deployment of wind and solar are in the midst of a slowdown.. as nuclear energy is poised to make a comeback ...

Planned solar projects increase solar capacity operated by the electric power sector 38% from 95 gigawatts (GW) at the end of 2023 to 131 GW by the end of 2024. We expect wind capacity to stay relatively flat at 156 GW by the end of 2024, compared with 149 GW in December 2023.Jan 16, 2024

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61242#:~:text=Planned%20solar%20projects%20increase%20solar,149%20GW%20in%20December%202023

..."The U.S. Senate has passed the Accelerating Deployment of Versatile, Advanced Nuclear for Clean Energy (ADVANCE) Act, sweeping legislation that seeks to promote U.S. nuclear leadership, accelerate advanced nuclear technology development while preserving existing nuclear generation, bolster national security measures, and enhance regulatory efficiency to support new nuclear deployment.

The Senate passed the bill on June 18 with a vote of 88–2 as part of the Fire Grants and Safety Act (S. 870). The measure passed the U.S. House in May by a vote of 393–13, and it now heads to the president’s desk, likely to be enacted.

The bipartisan nuclear bill’s enactment is a significant legislative endorsement of nuclear energy, marking the most comprehensive recognition of nuclear’s future role since the 2019-enacted Nuclear Energy Innovation and Modernization Act (NEIMA)."...

https://www.powermag.com/the-advance-act-legislation-crucial-for-a-u-s-nuclear-renaissance-clears-congress-heres-a-detailed-breakdown/?oly_enc_id=1249D9862912F8V

Or lots of car batteries rescued from breaker's yards strung together.

If their depth of discharge is limited they could last a long time.

Lots of space needed, but the real problem may be in detecting which batteries have begun to fail and are loosing efficiency. Something for an electronics whizz to make. Electronics are super cheap in mass production so an opportunity for someone, or maybe this exists already?

Deep Cycle lead acid batteries work at their best if they are regularly conditioned and ideally like a deep discharge, followed by charging. To make them last as long as possible, it is best to avoid short burst of charging.

Lithium Ion batteries can be charged opportunistically without negatively affecting performance.

The risks associated with charging Lead acid batteries is the generation of hydrogen, meaning special care has to be taken to reduce the hydrogen levels in the atmosphere to reduce the risk of explosions. This is not a risk when charging Lithium batteries.

We use all electric forklifts and other lifting equipment in the warehouse. All powered by deep cycle Lead acid batteries. Maintaining the batteries is a full time job. The initial cost of Lithium Ion batteries (and the legacy machines) is the only reason why we have not switched the fleet.

I disagree with lead acid batteries liking a deep discharge.A partially discharged lead acid battery will accumulate crystal deposits on the plate,reducing and eventually causing premature failure.
I have seen forklifts and powered jack trucks color coded to make certain the batteries were changed every shift.Anyone seen using a prior shift battery was fired,unless there was a very good reason.

The change out station was very easy to use,the charged and used batteries were on a skate conveyor.Roll the old one out,roll the new freshly charged one in.

The Douglas battery company established this 8 hour change routine out to keep their warranty active.They knew that deep discharge of a lead acid battery was damaging to the battery.

Golf courses keep their golf carts on a trickle charge when not in use to prevent the deterioration of the batteries.Still they typically last only about 5years.

There are many sites on line that will verify my statements.

Animals <...exploit...> everything, though; it's a natural process. Everything happens because something, somewhere, at some time got something out of the ground.

Let me suggest we not use EV's. Despite the amount of energy needed to make the batteries there is this never ending issue of charging them. Even with chargers on every corner the time lost waiting for the charging to complete isn't worth the pain. Until we have a more useable energy source than batteries let us stick to the gas and diesel engines we currently have. We can debate batteries forever, merits and shortcomings but I don't think they'll ever provide the alternative to petrochemical engines; not to mention the fire hazard they pose. I wouldn't park one anywhere near my home. Maybe slightly off topic but relevant to the overall discussion.

That was not the OP's question. Different horses for different courses - for some situations EVs may be a brilliant solution, for others disastrous. It depends on your needs, your power resourcing options, your risk appetite, your backup, your attitude towards whatever , etc.

For example, if I am a farmer lives in a remote area and have to travel long distances towing a heavy trailer quite often, then my light commercial vehicle (truck/ute/bakkie) is probably best served by a conventional diesel vehicle, maybe with long-range tanks. And that may be true even if, due to my remote location, I have a nice off-grid system with cheap power once installed.

But maybe I am a commuter with a fairly predictable 100k travel per day and easy access to a home charger in my garage (and maybe my own solar system with backup just 'cause I want to!), and the family has a second vehicle for longer journeys. I have different needs and conditions to satisfy. My vehicle will recharge quite quickly as I'm not doing a deep discharge each day, there is plenty of juice for more trips should I want to, etc. And I never (or very seldom) have to recharge "at the corner".

Just because I prefer a specific option, it does not mean I can generalise for all other use cases.

And as for fires - let's not drive the Ford Kuga then (sorry, I couldn't resist, my friend has one ). I have seen two petrol (gas) powered vehicles catch fire over my life, but that means nothing, one has to look at the incidence rate of fires. Studies give varying results, with one indicating that hybrids seem to have a higher incidence rate of fires than other types, some showing lower rates for EVs, other showing higher rates. Again, each to their own.

If space,weight and voltage per cell is no consideration,Edison Iron Batteries (nickle iron) would be best.They do not care if they are frozen,run dry and are usually guaranteed for 30+years.However,the voltage is low per cell(1.7V),and so there must be a lot of them connected in series/parallel to get sufficient voltage/current, and a converter system to make useful ac.These type batteries are used in arctic and other hash environs in a stationary application to capture solar,wind and hydro power.It has an efficiency of about 65% and can supply 30 to 50 KW per kilogram.

If you have lots of land, isolated from the grid, and a structure to contain them,this may be the answer.

I built a LiFe battery for my boat that weighs as much as a lead-acid deep cycle battery but runs my trolling motor twice as long. All weekend pretty much. One nice thing about it is that if I have a charger that puts out 14.5V or more I can use it to charge the LiFe because of the BMS. So If I connect it to my truck I can charge it off the alternator or I can use a regular lead battery charger plugged into AC. The LiFe battery will charge at 50A if my charger will put out that much current.

Plus, there are no fumes or out-gassing so they are safe to use on a boat.