Toroid Propeller

Many modern airliners have the little winglets tipped up at the end of the wing. There are several things going on, but basically they keep air from spilling off the end of the wing. If you pay the "drag price" of cutting some air then you want to get the "lift benefit" of having that air flow over the wing.

This boat propeller is a bit like two curved wings with the winglets going in opposite directions and joining. Since the boat propeller hits seaweed, sea grass, mud, etc., it is probably necessary to join the ends for strength. You get the benefit of the water not spilling off the end of the propeller, but I am guessing that you also pay a smaller price in the drag caused by the extra metal.

I'm just sitting here making this up as a guess, but my guess is that since a wind turbine is not expected to cut through plants and mud, you will probably be more efficient having a more conventional winglet on the wind turbine.

You probably have never noticed winglets on a wind turbine. I never have. That probably means one of two things. First, I might be totally wrong. Second, the blade of a wind turbine is so big that the added efficiency of a winglet just isn't worth the effort.

I think you are right. Glider wings are long and thin so that the induced drag from the wing tip vortices is insignificant. Windmill blades have an even higher aspect (chord/length) ratio.

This would seem to me to be the same idea, just a simpler version...

...or maybe this...

I have seen the first one(Nickname Egg Beater) in Oklahoma.Plenty of wind there.It was shut down,Not very efficient.

Source:^[22][23]

The world's tallest vertical-axis wind turbine, in Cap-Chat, Quebec....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical-axis_wind_turbine

Some good ideas there. I'm all for trying new designs to see what is more efficient and reliable. Those opposing these new designs are trying to break wind. Don't argue with them.

I liked the Wikipedia article, and noted that the vertical axis type has "better performance in disturbed flow-fields" and that they create less turbulence. This makes me wonder if more could be put on a given plot of ground and maybe generate more power per acre than the horizontal axis type.

I never saw one that looks a bit like a sign bridge. Interesting use of the style I have seen on vertical axis windmills that you also showed.

I really would like to see the efficiency data on this prop as compared to a conventional prop.

How much power, torque, RPM ect... is required to do the same force or water displacement..

..."Wind turbines can be 20–40% efficient at converting wind into energy, depending on the time of year and wind speed. During peak wind times, turbines can be around 50% efficient, but when winds are lower, efficiency can drop to 20%. The theoretical maximum efficiency of a wind turbine is 59%, known as the Betz Limit, but no turbine can reach this limit. "...

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-08/documents/wind_turbines_fact_sheet_p100il8k.pdf

You know I was thinking about this the other night, and came to the conclusion that wind, generated by heat, must then be the energy source that wind turbines are extracting from the atmosphere...So the wind extracts heat from the wind and reintroduces it in a diverse pattern...but that's neither here nor there init?

What occurs to me is that rather than having a whole field of one type of wind turbine that more energy could be extracted by mixing different types of wind turbines in a specific pattern to maximise the characteristics of each type of turbine design...thereby improving the efficiency of land use...

https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2024/nrel-artificial-intelligence-work-reveals-benefits-to-wind-industry.html

...and artists should be encouraged to paint the turbines, constantly changing the look of them, not boring, and keeping the blade surface maintenance to a minimum...

https://artistsandclimatechange.com/2017/11/21/wind-turbines-as-artistic-canvas/

https://techcabal.com/2016/02/08/transforming-industrial-equipment-into-works-of-art/

...."You know I was thinking about this the other night, and came to the conclusion that wind, generated by heat, must then be the energy source that wind turbines are extracting from the atmosphere...So the wind extracts heat from the wind and reintroduces it in a diverse pattern.."....

But then one could ask oneself, what if the heat extracted from the wind would be counter to the uv radiation that is reflected and supposedly trapped by CO₂ that everyone(it seems), is beating the drum about...One could say the same thing about solar(photovoltaic) power and certainly green plants exploding from the CO₂ effect would be the same....So is the CO₂ proposed effect, if true, being countered by other forces at play...Is the heating chiefly from the elimination of aerosols due to the clean air act..??? Are we just tripping over our own feet and totally clueless as to what's really happening? ...or are we just repackaging for a quick sale...Please share your thoughts on this...

Are we just tripping over our own feet and totally clueless as to what's really happening?

The way things are interconnected, how can we really tell about the unintended/unknown consequences? There are causes/effects in ways that none of us can imagine! And a lot of the effects will be long-term

Well you never know, it might turn out to be an improvement, we aren't/weren't living in a perfect world, regardless of the attitudes some people have....the only improvements I can think of off hand in my lifetime is air conditioning, phones and the internet, everything else seems to have gotten worse...with a few exceptions...

For power generation from wind (or river currents, perhaps?) this might work: https://vortexbladeless.com/about/

Don't think it would work on a boat, however.

It appears they could also harness the vortex energy down stream from the main post.This might be attached to the tower to follow the vortexes.

For text energy, are you alluting that there is an induction possibility that would have a positive energy, I believe that won’t not have a positive gain on capturing that ‘energy’.

I am referring to a possible turbine generator powered by the vortices shed by the column.Seems this is going to waste.Might not be much but might be worth exploring.Perhaps a special shape to generate more powerful vortices.The number of vortices shed is proportional to the velocity.There are meters using this principle to measure flow in a pipe. One such model uses a triangle shaped obstruction placed in the flow,small end downstream,and a dome shaped "cap"is placed above the obstruction.The disc will move up and down when a vortice passes under it,and it in turn changes the inductance of a coil mounted above it.This generates a pulse rate proportional to the flow.

How does one effecelynand effectively collect the energy of those vortices?

Which you also question… I suppose talking about it is the first steps.

Possibly with a omnidirectional turbine of some type attached to the pole,turning first one direction,then the other.

Large vortice can be very powerful,like behind jet planes,for instance.

I’m not doubting large vortices existence… it’s capturing it…

I’ve seen where they have them on road ways to capture it… I don’t know what the maintenance would be…

You are right.It is unexplored territory,but may be worth the effort.

You could install spring loaded vortex generators on the backside of the turbine blades... I'm thinking this would increase drag and the increase in complexity, as opposed to just making the blade a little larger, probably not worth the cost...

This idea has gone nowhere, just not practical...pure clickbait

Are you talking of the vortex shedding that affects street lighting poles and horizontal telephone cables? In phone cables it causes the galloping, which can become destructive. In the poles that I dealt with part time, very low wind speeds caused a vortex shedding frequency; if this matched the natural frequency of the pole, the vibration amplitude would gradually increase and could become destructive. The vortex shedding impulse was perpendicular to the wind direction. The same happens to high-tension electrical transmission cables; many/most have vibration dampeners to stop this. In my era, the most used were the brand Stockbridge, which I still see today. Each vortex was very low energy, so I expect trying to collect and utilize them will be far from cost effective.

We are getting far from the original topic--vertical axis wind turbines.

Are you talking of the vortex shedding that affects street lighting poles and horizontal telephone cables?

or tall smoke stacks....

We may be getting further from the topic.... but in my experiences... solutions can come from the damndest places.

Wind power is ridiculously expensive...just ask New Yorkers about to see a 300% increase in prices according to this article...

https://mishtalk.com/economics/new-york-to-pay-155-per-megawatt-hour-for-wind-current-rate-is-36-per-mwh/

Off-shore wind is ridiculously expensive. It is incredibly expensive to build and maintain equipment in the ocean. This should be the energy source of last resort.

Terrestrial-based wind turbines apparently can compete with other sources. It has its drawbacks, make no mistake, but seems to be taking hold in some areas of the country.

I just returned after driving cross-country from California to Maryland and saw numerous wind turbines along the way specifically along CA-58 east of Bakersfield is the Tehachapi Pass wind farm. Those seemed to be cranking along very nicely due to the channeling of the eastward winds through that pass. Although those do well, there are limited areas in this country with that kind of favorable geography and weather patterns.

Driving along the expanse from Denver, CO to Louisville, KY on Interstate-70, I also observed many wind turbines. Many of those were basically idle as we drove along. Hence the problem of intermittent sources of energy. There has to be back-up generation capacity to supplant the intermittent power. Batteries ain't gonna do it in spite of the best platitudes from the cheer leaders. And when the wind turbines are cranking out the power, that back-up generation capacity sits idle, wasting money.

There are no easy answers to get reliable power and satisfy the demands from those intent on slaying the carbon dragon riding in on their steeds with their armor gleaming in the sun. Nukes can play a role, but we all know the timetable to bring that power on-line.

Terrestrial-based wind turbines apparently can compete with other sources.

Even this is not really true even though the "cheerleaders" say it is! If all costs including construction, installation, disposal when they are done, and a backup source; and without subsidies, are compiled, the wind and solar sources do not compare well at all. It turns out that nuclear is cheapest, and I favor fast nuclear which is even better.