Hydrogen, a Feasible Source of Energy?

Well I don't think there is any question as to whether it's feasible or not, it certainly is, but the question is, is it practical for your particular use...and if not, which uses would be practical...

"Several shipping companies are actively transitioning to using hydrogen as fuel for their vessels, particularly for shorter sea routes like ferries and service vessels, as it offers a zero-emission alternative to traditional fossil fuels, with many pilot projects underway to develop hydrogen-powered ships and infrastructure to support this shift; however, challenges remain regarding hydrogen storage and production for large-scale maritime operations."

A very interesting link! Thanks SE!

I remember from way back, a high school project that used iron powder and water in a clear tube to produce hydrogen. I do not know the efficiency of it or if it was reversible to allow charge/recharge cycles. Does anyone know if this method has been researched?

Perhaps it could be combined with other methods?

That´s curious Rixter, because since High School we have learned that Hydrogen was the most rich gas energely speaking, but I see that it is hard to make it usable for combustion engines, due to the storage dificulties (we could pressure it but it would be walking with a bomb,very powerfull).

tell me your toughts...

tell me your thoughts...

It is the most energetic by mass, but it's so light that there's not much hydrogen in your tank unless it is highly compressed (and you need a very strong tank). It can't be liquified unless it is cooled to close to absolute zero.

Comparison of hydrogen energy density vs gasoline:

• Hydrogen has a very low volumetric energy density: 8 MJ/L for liquid hydrogen (-259^o C) and 5.6 MJ/L for compressed hydrogen gas at 700 bar pressure (10000 psi)
• Gasoline has a much higher volumetric energy density: 32 MJ/L at ambient conditions1.
• On a mass basis, hydrogen has nearly three times the energy content of gasoline: 120 MJ/kg for hydrogen versus 44 MJ/kg for gasoline2.

I have to give you a GA...

Exactly you touch off on it, it’s the caloric value that your looking for.

here's a comparison between other fuels and its link.

A third source of hydrogen is the "white" hydrogen produced naturally in earth's crust. It is found in certain geography, usually in quantities that used to be considered too small for commercial exploitation.

This view has changed in the last few years as some wells have reached commercial exploitation. One company that I know, QIMC is evaluating potential wells in Quebec. Their discovery has prompted others to follow. QIMC -September 2024 Presentation

Maybe, white hydrogen will become a source of energy in this case, requiring little energy to purify. An added bonus is that helium is often found in the same wells. This is almost as important as we are running out of it.

There is a shortage of helium. When I was visiting family in Amarillo, TX about 10 years ago, that helium plant in that area I believe was shutting down if it wasn't already closed.

One thing I did not see mentioned is that hydrogen is difficult to contain. It leaks through the smallest gaps. When it does leak it is highly explosive. From memory I believe it is explosive between 4% and 96% of air. I would never put a hydrogen fueled car inside a garage.

There is also the problem of embrittlement in steel engines. The hydrogen does react with the metal.

People may think this is off-topic, but when your trying to solve a problem by creating a solution, you need to explore the edges for a understanding of the physical world what you're up against.

So here it goes on the tangency borders...

In welds its called hydrogen-induced cracking, but for different reasons. It been a while since my college Physical Metallurgy courses. ^{which by the way I thought was boring until I got out of college and in the real world and now see it as a tool and appreciate it a lot more.}

My understanding in a simplified explanation I believe that the cause is from the welding electrode it creates a electrolysis reaction, and splits the moisture in the air (humidity) and this causes the embrittlement. There is more than on procedure that cause this. Also ways to prevent this from occurring, at least in welding.

I had to google to shake out the cobwebs to verified this.

Just to let you know , there is a car manufacturer that produced a engine that work with petrol and is prepared to burn hydrogen as well ... But is a prototipe not in reach of the comun person, and there are still the lac of suplliers for it. But is an advance in hidrogen engines , not only with fuel cells, I guess...

There are many downsides for hydrogen still as I can see , but I think that we cant give up hydrogen never because there is plenty, while fossil may end in the future.

There are other way to make hydrogen, pass steam over red hot iron which oxidises giving up hydrogen. A use for all those ICE cars when they are discarded by mindless government red tape.

As for the Aluminium in BEVs drop it into NaOH and that reacts to produce hydrogen, as I did in many balloon experiments to lift items into the sky.

BMW has a development fleet of hydrogen powered cars & recently announced that it plans to launch a production car in 2028. Toyota, Honda & Hyundai are also working on hydrogen vehicles.

You don't need an extreme high pressure tank for hydrogen. Hydrogen can be dissolved in a few different chemicals. Just like acetylene can be dissolved in acetone.

And then how is it brought back to Hydrogen without creating a Rube Goldberg machine?

My understanding is that its just like acetylene coming out of acetone. It's not a chemical reaction.

My reference is the acetylene tanks used for welding with a torch. You force the acetylene in and it comes back out at about 15psi. also long as you don't tip the tank over the acetone stays in the pressure bottle.

A little off topic, but I understand even though I’m not too familiar with it with the exception of what I learned in 7th grade shop class.

Acetylene being released at 15 psi that’s the upper limit where acetylene will self ignite.

I’m not a chemical engineer but doing the similar thing such with hydrogen would need more brain storming, anyways, those bottles are heavy.

Acetylene is one of the few chemicals that can explode without oxygen, a sharp shock wave can do it.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1350630705001469

...which is why <...acetylene...> bottles are filled with Kapok before <...acetylene...>.

Wont those chemicals be a cause of polution?

All substances are somewhere, so <...pollution...> is merely a general term for a substance that is in the wrong place.

As a side note: Mammals produce more energy pound per pound, than our sun.

Are you sure?

Yes. Volume vs volume,(Err!/My bad in my first statement) not pound vs pound.. Amazing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1pt7xt/is_it_true_that_per_cm3_the_human_body_gives_off/?rdt=49691

So a small update to the use of Hydrogen in in cars. Hydrogen was first used in 1994 by Mercedes since then the size of a Hydro engine hast reduced from filling the entire VAN load dept. to a normal 4cyl. engine today.
Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai all have hydrogen powered vehicles running on the roads. The Hydrogen is stored on the vehicles at 700psi !! in steel tanks covered with high grade plastics roughly an 1" thick to stop permutation of the Hydrogen through the steel.
The use of Hydrogen is rougly the same as using petrol, takes about 4-5 minutes to fill the tank with about the same mpg as using petrol. It costs around US $ 12,50 / kg. Hydrogen is sold by weight. a rough guide is 1kg of Hydrogen will get you 60 miles so a 5kg tank will get you 300 miles (480kms).
There are various solutions being tested right now with one solution being producting the Hydrogen directly at the service station using Solar / Windpower to power the conversion.
Dade County, Miami is using a sewage works which produces methane gas which is then used to generate electricity to power the conversion to Hydrogen. This idea can be scaled to almost any community. And there is always a constant suppy of waste.
I worked on a Hydrogen Exhaust Sensor project at Mercedes and then a joint venture with Ford and Nissan was formed to develop a Hydrogen motor.
One interesting point is Hydrogen, being lighter than Air does not cause a high fire risk like petrol or diesel. If a Hydrogen tank leak catches fire you will get a rapid but short lived Spike after the safety valve opens, unlike petrol or diesel which being heavier than air creeps over the ground and when it ignites you have a large area burning.