Previous in Forum: Iron Nanoparticles   Next in Forum: Hello from Germany – Excited to Join CR4 Community!
Close
Close
Close
15 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270

Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/05/2025 7:39 AM

Is spacetime a fluid? It seems to be acting like a fluid to me, with frame dragging, deflection of light, etc. Matter is like a ship floating on the water, displacing(warping) space-time according to it's mass and area.

Could some fluid dynamics help explain some of the spacetime effects?

I do not know much, if anything about this, so I am approaching with a blank sheet, ready for information and education on this island of ignorance where I currently reside.

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: spacetime as a fluid?
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#1

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/05/2025 10:02 AM

Yes, in theoretical physics, spacetime is often modeled as a fluid, particularly a superfluid, to help unify general relativity and quantum mechanics, with gravity explained as a consequence of this fluid's properties, such as pressure gradients. This fluid-like behavior is not a direct analogy but a mathematical framework to describe spacetime's emergent nature from more fundamental constituents, similar to how water emerges from H2O molecules.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/superfluid-spacetime-relativity-quantum-physics/

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/05/2025 6:38 PM

What are the fundamental constituents of spacetime?

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/05/2025 7:01 PM

The fundamental constituents of spacetime are a complex and open question in physics, but current leading ideas include its potential discreteness into "chunks" or "atoms of spacetime" in theories like loop quantum gravity, or its emergence from a more fundamental reality, possibly related to quantum entanglement, as explored in some string theory contexts and entropic gravity. Alternatively, spacetime itself might be a fundamental, non-material concept, similar to a mathematical coordinate system or a physical manifold of points and tangent spaces, without deeper material constituents.

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 6215
Good Answers: 248
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/07/2025 1:12 AM

I've known for many years that I am a classical physicist, and only a classical physicist. Viewing that video convinces me that I will die a classical physicist (hopefully not for a few years yet).

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4528
Good Answers: 106
#4

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/06/2025 11:06 PM

I haven't spent much time looking at it, but the river model of GR is the only one that makes any sense to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFlzQvAyH7g

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#6

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/07/2025 6:01 AM

IMHO:

Perhaps spacetime is moving at the speed of C. We do not notice, because we are moving with it.

Like an object in orbit, to change the altitude, one must add energy to get to a higher altitude, or shed energy to get to a lower altitude; what we call inertia.

If two objects are at a different altitude(energy wise) and collide, the difference in energy levels must be rectified by shedding energy in the form of heat:(Enthalpy?)

Gravity is caused by the objects that have not yet caught up in a stable orbit and are still accelerating in an attempt to catch up with space time. The more massive an object, in relation to it's displacement, the greater will be the lag, or gravity.

(Just sittin' here sipping on my Gentleman Jack Black Label, and contemplating, among other things of universal important things, like does the price of eggs justify the wear and tear on a hen's cloaca?)

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 482
Good Answers: 7
#7

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/07/2025 11:29 AM

Engineering and science are opposite functions. Our scientists, in which are just mathematicians now, have to use probability because they have no clue as to what they are talking about.

Where as an engineer…………….. eliminates probability, randomness and chaos. For their work.

When you eliminate false concepts, we have success. Theory never pays off without engineering.

Math has NEVER paid off, only engineering can suggest theory, not math.

If probability, randomness and chaos really existed, we would not have any engineering. No machines. No advantage. NO TOOLS. Measurement would be meaningless.

Our current theory of light and gravity is false. Our theory of mass and matter is false.

We are totally ignorant. We have many tools now, but still have no knowledge.

__________________
Light is only half of what you think it is.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
2
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2025
Location: Baoan, Shenzhen, China
Posts: 1
Good Answers: 1
#8

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/07/2025 9:54 PM

That’s a very good question, and you’re not alone — many people wonder whether spacetime behaves like a kind of fluid.

The short answer is: No, spacetime is not literally a fluid.

In fluid dynamics, a fluid is made of particles (molecules) that can flow and exert pressure.

In general relativity, spacetime is not made of particles. Instead, it’s the geometrical structure that tells matter how to move, and matter tells spacetime how to curve.

Why the “fluid” analogy feels natural:

Frame dragging (caused by rotating massive bodies like Earth or black holes) does look a bit like water swirling when a spoon stirs it.

Light deflection near stars or galaxies is reminiscent of how a wave changes direction when moving through a varying medium.

But there are key differences:

Spacetime doesn’t resist or “push back” the way a fluid does.

Objects don’t float on top of spacetime like ships on water — they move within spacetime along paths (geodesics) defined by its curvature.

There’s no viscosity, turbulence, or “molecules of spacetime” in Einstein’s picture.

That said, fluid analogies can be useful for building intuition. In fact, physicists sometimes use “analogue gravity” experiments with fluids to model aspects of black holes and wave propagation. But these are analogies, not literal descriptions.

So the safe takeaway is:

Spacetime is better thought of as a flexible geometry than as a fluid. Fluid dynamics can sometimes give us helpful metaphors, but they don’t explain spacetime itself.

__________________
Motormicro – Expert DC Motor Manufacturer | High-Precision Motors for Industrial & Commercial Applications | motormicro.com
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/08/2025 8:49 AM

Another analogy could be :

It certainly seems to resist, or push back as the speed increases, especially when approaching "C".

Like a viscous liquid being forced through a nozzle, the restricted stream is "stretched" as velocity is increased. More velocity reduces the nozzle size, "Stretching" the liquid(spacetime, in this case) causing time dilation.

It becomes harder and harder to pass through the nozzle until it is fully and finally closed, and impossible to pass through.

C seems to be at least one boundary of our universe, preventing escape from our dimension.

There may be universes where C is the minimum speed, and others just like ours.

Imagine a checker board, with like dimensions touching only at the corners. Alternate dimensions(where C is the minimum speed) would be separated by solid black or white squares.

It may be possible to someday figure out how to "thread the eye of the needle" and pass through these corners, perhaps via a black hole, or other massive rotating objects(a wormhole?) if approached at a critical angle and velocity;Similar to falling through the center of a whirlpool of liquid, not touching the sides.

Jus' thinkin'

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 482
Good Answers: 7
#10

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/08/2025 9:53 AM

The resistance of matter to acceleration in space, does NOT come from space. It comes from inertia.

The speed of light is NOT limited by the properties of space, such as e0 and u0. Space has NO properties.

The speed of light is ONLY limited by it’s acceleration. Not resistance to that acceleration. Light has no inertia to limit it. Only the source of acceleration limits light’s speed.

All EM fields whether connected with a source or emitted from a source,,,,,,, already have that c velocity. ALL particles have that velocity. It’s a component of the motion of the particle. But it’s not an arc motion. It’s an arc inside of an arc. A rotation inside a rotation. A bent velocity. Not a linear c.

Emission is just an instant change in mode of field. Not a V change or acceleration. This is why the V of emitter….. is never added to the V of the emission. The emission and the source, never share the same time. Source V can not be added.

When connected to the source the field is angular. When emitted, the field is linear. This can happen in an instant, because the field has no inertia. And needs no acceleration.

Matter is the only thing that interacts. Space is emptiness. And has nothing to react with.

__________________
Light is only half of what you think it is.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#11

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/08/2025 6:22 PM

I think that electrons, neutrons and protons travel very close to the speed of light in their movement..this taps into a force that supersedes other forces we are familiar with...that force is huge and stretches for many miles with an attractive force towards other subatomic particles....as they clump together over millions of years they have only speed, distance and trajectory to keep them separated...the faster the particle the greater its mass, so we have different levels of energy in different particles, and thus different mass....space itself is inhabited by dust or parts of matter that repel against this force because it is too low in its energy content, slow moving particles..these particles are unique...anyway this is my current thinking...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 482
Good Answers: 7
#12

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/11/2025 12:09 PM

In the future it might be possible to physically prove that there is no space time. If in the future we can build a container that is absent of all matter and particles, AND if we can coat it with an EM blocking film/paint, then the space inside should be void of all matter and all field energy. And cool.

That would make it absolute zero. A truly empty space. A clean spot in the eons of matter/field cosmic excrement. Void of the background. The only quiet space ever.

The demonstration of empty space. Non entity space. An absence of entity.

But it’s easy to suppose about the future.

Maybe we could build a sandwich structure that has no space, then pull it apart creating a space.

__________________
Light is only half of what you think it is.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/11/2025 1:07 PM

The future is now, my friend!

The good folks at Build-a-Void®, a wholly owned subsidiary of Anechoic Chambers-R-Us®, offers the You-Build-It 10 meter Void.

Impermeable to everything - neutrinos, hadrons, positrons; Check. EM radiation of every type; Check. Gravity… well, not so much, but we are working on that.

We, the good folks at LynDoor Industries, take the position (considering the ridiculous amount of time it takes to assemble one of these, and the crazy amount of room it takes to store and operate) that time and space are both, in fact, a ‘thing’, and coexist at the same place and time inextricably.

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 482
Good Answers: 7
#14

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/11/2025 2:07 PM

Sorta like the portable, expandable hole. From ACME. Some think like that I guess.

This would not be making space, this would be only filtering the empty space that is already there.

__________________
Light is only half of what you think it is.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Is Spacetime a Fluid?

09/11/2025 2:58 PM

“This would not be making space, this would be only filtering the empty space that is already there.”

I like that! Catchy. Hey, would you maybe consider a side gig writing some new advertising copy for LynDoor Industries? Some of our catalog items don’t sell very well, maybe some snappy ad copy can get some of that crap stuff moving.

If you’re interested, have your people call my people, maybe we can swing a deal.

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 15 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

dkwarner (1); Doorman (2); Haymaker (4); HiTekRedNek (3); PlainTruth (1); SolarEagle (3); StandardsGuy (1)

Previous in Forum: Iron Nanoparticles   Next in Forum: Hello from Germany – Excited to Join CR4 Community!

Advertisement