Previous in Forum: What are electrons made of?   Next in Forum: Would Wax Improve the Flow of Low-Melt Index Plastics?
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/11/2008 1:08 AM

I am a plastic injection molder in Haiti and my main source of material is post-consumer re-injected regrind of HDPE badly de-polymerised. Is there a way to re-polymerise without adding prime virgin material or post-industrial HDPE?

Issa Talamas

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#1

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/11/2008 12:00 PM

I don't think there is a way .... I think limited amounts of regrind can be used with virgin material. If you find a way round the problem you will probably become very rich...
Maybe someone can offer some hope?

Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
#2

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/12/2008 3:29 AM

Based on my experience, i think your problem is not de-polymerization but oxidation of certain properties of HDPE. You can try using paraffin wax or any lubricant suited for Ethylenes.

HTH.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Canada - Member - Toronto, Ontario (South Parkdale On The Lakeshore) Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - Great Lakes School Of Marine Technology (Owen Sound and Port Colbourne) Technical Fields - Architecture - Private Practice 1976-1990 Technical Fields - Education - Toronto Teachers' College 1971 Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - Founding Member Hobbies - Hunting - Founding Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - Founding Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario Canada
Posts: 1265
Good Answers: 14
#3
In reply to #2

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/13/2008 12:21 AM

Hi Guest!

It's an important question, so please be kind enough to report back when you find a suggestion that seems to work well, or a working solution to your problem.

Thanks,

Mark

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 101
#5
In reply to #2

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/14/2008 9:17 AM

I agree with Nelson, I don't think it is depolymerization. It is most probably oxidation and/or contamination with other scrap material. The only way to rework it is to blend it with virgin material but be careful, the product you are producing will have less tensile strenght than when using only virgin material.

Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweet home Alabama
Posts: 144
Good Answers: 7
#4

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/14/2008 8:48 AM

The polymer polyethylene does not un-polymerize.

Ethylene in polymerized to PE. For all intents it can not, or will not un polymerize.

If it could, the ethylene would vaporize and go away.

The conditions used to polymerize PE are specific often "severe". That is how they can make low molecular wt, high MW, uhmw (ultra high mol weight) and other cross linked, blocked and various properties. The double bonds used to "link the chain" have been broken and you would not be able to recreate them. If you try to use free radical application, other chemical bonds will be attacked and further degrade a bad material.

If you have degraded PE, or other polymers they may not play well together. For example PVC will not alloy with PE due to very different melting and glass transition temperatures.

Be more specific with what you are trying to do with what.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: http://www.geocities.com/qbayul08/essentialenvt.html
Posts: 20
Good Answers: 2
#6

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/14/2008 12:43 PM

I agreed with PADDLER. Polymerization is an irreversible reaction and several types of PE can be obtained. If you want to use again the used PE, be careful with the application to use. Actually, some companies are recycling most of the polymers to recover the monomer, which is hard to do it without the right technology, or re-use the polymer itself to make disposable containers.

__________________
Ricky
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
#7
In reply to #6

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/14/2008 5:12 PM

I see your point. Since the thread starter and I are into recycling, could you enlighten us re recycling polymers to recover monomer? What is the right tech to do this?

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweet home Alabama
Posts: 144
Good Answers: 7
#8

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/14/2008 5:43 PM

I am unaware of any polymers that are being converted back to monomer. But I only know thermopplastices like PVC, PE, Poly propylene, ABS, Polystyrene, and Polybutadiene, acrylics and some acrylate. There are many more polymers I don't know about and would like to hear. Some of these are being stripped of monomer down to less than one part per million (monomer in polymer) and monomer cleaned and recycled. I am not as familiar with the thermosetting plastics.

I think what CHEMRICDO meant to say was that the value of the monomer is now in polymer form. The polymer waste, oversize sweeps, reactor cleanings can be collected and ground, blended, remelted and otherwise recovered.

Some heating value can be recovered by burning and (hopefully) scrubbing the stack to recover chlorine if it is PVC.

To undo the polymer chain and reform the double bond would not be practical. If anyone knows activity in this area, please respond.

Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: http://www.geocities.com/qbayul08/essentialenvt.html
Posts: 20
Good Answers: 2
#10
In reply to #8

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/17/2008 12:57 PM

The initial question was how to re-polymerize old HDPE. This means the polymerization must be carried out again from the ethylene monomer. The ethylene monomer can be obtained from the dehydration of ethanol, hydrogenation of acetylene, cracking of natural gas (ethane or propane) followed by purification process. As the polymer reaction is irreversible, a lot of energy must be used for cracking the polymer into small molecules (methane, ethane, propane). Once ethane or propane is obtained, a new cracking will be necessary to carry out to produce the ethylene monomer. This of course is more time consuming and expensive. Therefore, re-polymerization is not a cheap way to do using HDPE.

__________________
Ricky
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 278
Good Answers: 10
#9

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/15/2008 11:44 AM

From EXXONMOBILE:

Barrier fuel tanks for automobiles may be built of incompatible polymeric layers, for example, virgin HDPE, an EVOH barrier layer, polyamide, and a regrind layer, attached with adhesive or tie layers. Blow molding or thermo-forming of fuel tanks can produce up to 60% trim waste. Manufacturers attempt to reuse this waste as an extra regrind layer. Unfortunately, these materials tend to form incompatible particles when reground, resulting in poor impact properties, and limiting the amount of regrind that can be used in the final structure to less than 35 wt%. Adding low-density metallocene polyethylenes to the regrind improves particle compatibility and enables an increase in the amount of regrind that can be used--up to 45 to 50 wt%. The low-density metallocene polyethylene has 50,000 to 200,000 number average molecular weight and low polydispersity. The amount of low-density metallocene resin added to the regrind layer is 3 to 20 wt%.

When i worked for a cable overmolder the most regrind we could use was 25% as it produced cosmetic blemishes. Mainly depends on what the finished product is.

Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: http://www.geocities.com/qbayul08/essentialenvt.html
Posts: 20
Good Answers: 2
#11
In reply to #9

Re: How Do I Re-Polymerise Old Post-Consumer HDPE

01/17/2008 1:18 PM

I just want to do a clarification. It seems to be I missunderstood the question. I just read "how to re-polymerize HDPE". My previous comments were done from the chemical point of view, since polymerization means a chemical reaction from a monomer to get a polymer at a specific pressure and temperature. Sorry for this.

In order to restore the old post consumer HDPE, it should be recommendable to follow the DGCYS suggestions.

__________________
Ricky
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Reply to Forum Thread 11 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

CHEMRICARDO (3); DGCYS (1); MarkTheHandyman (1); Nelson de Leon (2); Paddler (2); slong (1); user-deleted-1105 (1)

Previous in Forum: What are electrons made of?   Next in Forum: Would Wax Improve the Flow of Low-Melt Index Plastics?

Advertisement