Previous in Forum: Latent heat of Vaporisation   Next in Forum: Designing a standard solid liquid mixing tank
Close
Close
Close
38 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

cracking mud

01/22/2008 12:10 AM

Can you provide recipe(s) for a water-based cracking mud using material purchased from ceramic, pottery or building supply stores?

thanks

dadbob

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa
Posts: 3921
Good Answers: 97
#1

Re: cracking mud

01/22/2008 3:40 AM

Is this for art or do you want to prevent mud from cracking when it is dry?

For crack prevention you have to supply more detail.

For art - My wife was doing some transparent dishes with a cracked effect and i had to get her 2 spray cans of stuff, One for creating the cracking effect (shrinkage) and another to fix the process. I cannot remember the names of the product but will have a look and post it.

__________________
Never do today what you can put of until tomorrow - Student motto
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#2

Re: cracking mud

01/23/2008 12:45 AM

Add corn flower to the mix but as I dont know what you are doing you will have to experiment with volumes

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#3

Re: cracking mud

01/23/2008 12:18 PM

From the lessons learned department:

Once again, a request has been posted in somewhat ambiguous terms, and insufficient information to form an answer.

Once again, that post was from the inscrutable 'Guest', so there's no way to tell if said person ever returns to see what the answer and/or difficulty providing it is. And there's no way to send a PM (email) to ask for the missing data.

Once again, the good folks here are trying their best to provide an answer despite these difficulties.

Am I detecting a pattern here? I think so...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply
Member
Hobbies - Musician - dadbob

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: OREGON, usa
Posts: 5
Good Answers: 1
#4
In reply to #3

Re: cracking mud

01/23/2008 3:09 PM

please forgive my ambiguosity

My goal is to

form a one-half to one inch thick

body of a "mud"approximately one square yard in area.

Upon loss of water component this material will shrink in volume.

Not having cohesive properties sufficient to remain continuous,

said body will fracture into islands separated by open space.

You may assume no adhesivity to substrate.

My desire is to form this mud from readily available materials from retail sources.

can you be more specific in your needs for additional information?

thanks

dadbob

brendle@peak.org

Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#5
In reply to #4

Re: cracking mud

01/23/2008 5:27 PM

Why, thank you sir, former 'Guest', now member, welcome aboard! And yes, I can be more specific. There are natural materials that perform this feat readily, available (depending on your location) free. Is this intended to be a permanent decorative construction, or a temporary display of some sort? I'll not be reading or posting much longer today, but will be back tomorrow (Thursday here). Cheers!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#12
In reply to #4

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 7:17 AM

Well, as I anticipated, others have provided much of the info you should need. Any predominantly clay-based mud, whether pond bottom, potters' clay, or Bentonite can be induced to form the kind of surface you desire. Post #9 (Kris) has a link to an article that explains the mechanism very well, I recommend reading it.

And I'm still interested in the proposed application of this project. Long-term art, perhaps? Or classroom demo for only a day or so? Curious, curious...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#14
In reply to #12

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 7:50 AM

Post #9 (Kris) has a link to an article that explains the mechanism very well, I recommend reading it.

Hey, doesn't that obligate you to give me points at #9 ? (Positive ones, in case you are in sneaky mode !). Take pity everyone, I need some credibility !

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#16
In reply to #14

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 12:07 PM

"...doesn't that obligate you to give me..."

Odd, how non-obligated I feel...

"I need some credibility!"

However, the truth of THAT is obvious on the face of it! I shall forthwith apply one 'good answer' point to post #9 in the off chance that any credibility will thus accrue to you, oh incredible one.

GOOD Kris!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#18
In reply to #16

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 3:27 PM

Ahhhh, that's nice. I feel lovingly soothed, although slightly disturbed that you like my socks !

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#20
In reply to #18

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 3:50 PM

You wear socks?!? Who knew? Where do you get socks that fit cloven hooves (much less squirrel paws)? Are they at all like these?

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#23
In reply to #20

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:39 PM

Those are nice, bit I was thinking of the ones I hang out for Santa. Rodents and the Cloven have nice furry insulation.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#27
In reply to #23

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:51 PM

LOL! My Aunt Lillian used to make those! I saved it to my 'favorites'...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#28
In reply to #27

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:53 PM

We aim to please !

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: KnoxTN
Posts: 1485
Good Answers: 6
#6

Re: cracking mud

01/23/2008 9:28 PM

Almost any mud will crack in a reticulated pattern. This can be observed in dried up river beds or pond bottoms when there are long periods without rain. There is no need to buy something special unless you want s special color or other characteristic. A river bed of pond at times of low water will supply all you need for a yard square. Thinner layers produce small patterns and larger layers larger patterns.

Buy any potters or sculptors clay at a craft store or shovel your own. Difference will not be very noticeable.

__________________
Do Nothing Simply When a Way Can be Found to Make it Complex and Wonderful
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#7
In reply to #6

Re: cracking mud

01/23/2008 10:32 PM

As DadBob says, I think that at max 1 inch thickness a square yard piece will probably crack too much to remain intact. It sounds as though some kind of additive is needed to limit the cracking to surface. Maybe adding PVA glue could sort this ? Alternatively he could scout round looking for a dried up patch of lake that exhibits the desired depth of cracking (ie it naturally has the desired composition). The rate of drying would probably be a factor, so it sounds like a bit of experimentation may be needed. Another possibility might be some kind of adjustable framework that could be gently closed up a little as the tile dries.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: KnoxTN
Posts: 1485
Good Answers: 6
#8
In reply to #7

Re: cracking mud

01/23/2008 10:44 PM

Well, in any event the mud is reusable. Might take a little effort. A drill motor and a spackling mixer blade would make it easier.

Another possibility is to pour a thick mixture 1/2" thick and a thinner mix on top, or vice versa.

A rich field for research as to how to achieve the best pattern(s).

__________________
Do Nothing Simply When a Way Can be Found to Make it Complex and Wonderful
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#9
In reply to #8

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 12:12 AM

Hi Stan,

Your right it shouldn't take too many trips to the lake. I like the idea of getting something useful for free. That 'sandwich' idea is quite neat. A bit of trial and error could find a suitable mix for a substrate and another for a 'cracked' topping. I sound like I'm turning into a Home-maker !

I got a mixer thing that fits on the end of a drill. I don't recall the cost, but it was outrageous for the twisted bit of metal it is. Studying the patterns would be interesting. Oddly I've never paid much attention to dried up lakes etc, but I'd expect some pattern like the Giants Causeway in Ireland (tail end of which is in Scotland) - that mix of Hexagons and Pentagons. This is just conjecture - the cooling of the lava starts around nucleus point dotted across the surface and expands outward. The analogy would be a floor covered in balloons that are then inflated. As they expand and make contact they are inevitably forced into Hexagon shapes. The slight randomness in distribution of these nuclei would result in 'anomalies' such as pentagons etc. My brain goes slightly mad at this time in the morning, so I'm probably talking bull ! Maybe the OP could contact the people who supply Bentonite to the construction Industry.

There are some nice pictures of mud cracks here.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#11
In reply to #9

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 7:06 AM

"so I'm probably talking bull"

No, no, even the pics you supplied were not of bull. That would look more like this:

or this: or even like this: Now that's a lotta BULL!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#13
In reply to #11

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 7:46 AM

Milton Keynes has some concrete cows, but I think Albert would squash them.

All part of the service !

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#15
In reply to #13

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 12:01 PM

Ah, another one of your meditation photos, I see... Big, empty white rectangle with a small boxed red x in the upper left corner. Very easy to reach a certain level of mindless nirvana staring at that for a couple of hours... But personally, I prefer:

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#17
In reply to #15

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 3:19 PM

Tell ya what. Do Ctrl + Print Screen, then print it off via pasting to 'Paint'. You could assemble a handy jotter pad in this way You may need to clip the image a bit so you just get the space and red x.

Here it is ;

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#19
In reply to #17

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 3:45 PM

Ah, Albert! From my home state of Iowa. Wonderful, thanks! Now that's a whole lotta bull! Hereford, too - a British native, I believe?

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#21
In reply to #19

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:31 PM

I love it when coincidence like that happens. What are the odds on me picking bull from your Country, and home State ! I think there is a Jimmy Stewart Western in which an English Lady is transporting a Hereford into cattle country. The Longhorn ranchers are less than impressed.

Hereford is on the Welsh Border, so I guess that's where they Originate. It could just be the locally based SAS in disguise. I prefer Aberdeen Angus. On a plate !

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#24
In reply to #21

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:45 PM

Sorry, no plates available. On the hoof or leave it...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#26
In reply to #24

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:51 PM

Are you a fibre chomping vegetarian, or do you just eat it direct from the spit ? I like vegetarian food, I'm just no good at cooking it. You may be grossed-out to hear that I like mine oozing just a trace of blood if it's grilled.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#29
In reply to #26

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:56 PM

Vegetarian - old English word meaning 'poor hunter'. Make mine rare also.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#30
In reply to #29

Re: cracking mud

01/25/2008 5:24 AM

There's some film where the dude says to the waiter, " Just de-horn it, wipe it's ass, and send it in ! ". This is one for JohnDG's new thread on food. I take it you mean 'rare' in the sense that it's still breathing !

Out of curiosity I looked in my (Chambers) dictionary;

Vegetable : L vegetabilis animating, from vegetare to animate ; cf vigour.

This has confused me, since common usage seems to imply the opposite.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#31
In reply to #30

Re: cracking mud

01/25/2008 9:46 AM

Yes, a vigorous, animated couch potato is very much a contradiction in terms, but one of the greatest beauties of our language is its malleability. We changes it to fit as we needs it. But I don't exactly mean still breathing - more like still bleeding. If the steer was branded, it's almost been cooked enough.

I've often stated that I'll eat anything that doesn't try to eat me first or crawl off the plate, and some things that do. And since I can't leave a cliché underused, I modified the "hungry enough to eat a horse" to "and chase the rider, and have the saddle for dessert" - gets grins from wait staff all over the place!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#32
In reply to #31

Re: cracking mud

01/25/2008 11:43 AM

If the steer was branded, it's almost been cooked enough.

I just PMSL !

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#33
In reply to #32

Re: cracking mud

01/25/2008 11:58 AM

You'll want this, then...

...or maybe this...

One of them ought to work for you!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#34
In reply to #33

Re: cracking mud

01/25/2008 12:07 PM

The padding in my office ( which for some strange reason, the staff call a 'cell') is very absorbent. The one who insists he is a Doctor pulls the most strange expressions as he observes the rising Yellow decor. I've tried explaining it's hard to type with my nose, but they insist I wear the deluxe white Jacket they got me for X-mas. I have endless patience for my staff, even though they do come to me asking for help explaining the strange ink blots they design on bits of card. The weekly demonstration on cross-temple electrical conductivity isn't much fun, but one has to keep their training up to scratch.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#35
In reply to #34

Re: cracking mud

01/25/2008 12:54 PM

So the fact that you seem at times to be barking mad is routinely explainable, eh? Suspicions confirmed file, here I come...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Friend of CR4

Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1776
Good Answers: 35
#36
In reply to #35

Re: cracking mud

01/25/2008 2:47 PM

Alright gents, its about time to take the off-topic discussion to the internal message system.

__________________
Off to take on other challenges. Good luck everybody! See you around the Interwebs.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#37
In reply to #36

Re: cracking mud

01/25/2008 4:01 PM

Yessir, sorry sir!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#38
In reply to #36

Re: cracking mud

01/26/2008 6:13 AM

Sorry Chris. Thought it had 'jumped it's shark'.. Message understood.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa
Posts: 3921
Good Answers: 97
#22
In reply to #11

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:31 PM

Lovabull , reliabull or impossibull?

__________________
Never do today what you can put of until tomorrow - Student motto
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#25
In reply to #22

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:48 PM

One each - Relia, Lova, and Impossi, the three bovine amigos! And then there's the explorer, Naviga...you ought to recognize him!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa
Posts: 3921
Good Answers: 97
#10

Re: cracking mud

01/24/2008 4:03 AM

2 wild ideas.

The manufactures of toilets , hand basins and clay pots has overcome the cracking problem. Items are molded oversize and allowed to shrink to size while drying. (and they use good quality clay), You should experiment with it.

Slasto don't show cracks. It should be considered to emulate the process. You could try and place thin layers at a time and roll it to compact it and reduce the water content.

__________________
Never do today what you can put of until tomorrow - Student motto
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 38 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Chris Leonard (1); dadbob (1); EnviroMan (16); Hendrik (3); Kris (14); Stirling Stan (2)

Previous in Forum: Latent heat of Vaporisation   Next in Forum: Designing a standard solid liquid mixing tank

Advertisement