naval structural engineering vs. civil structural engineering

Hello Guest,

If you are intending going into any Engineering field whatsoever, you need to improve your spelling first: <"oppurtunities challangeing:>

You are debating with yourself, and are wanting the opinions of others, you say.

But if you intend to be a good Engineer, you need to learn how to think for yourself.

So......The answer is easy:

Just do what Engineers and other logical/lateral thinkers would do: Write out 2 different Themes:

1. Naval architecture
2. Civil Engineering

Under each have 2 columns:

1. For (Pro)
   
2. Against (Con)

Now you can organise your thoughts easily into the four available categories.

For instance, if you get seasick, it goes under "Naval Architecture - Against".

When you have written several pages, a pattern will emerge, and you should have no trouble in making your decision.

No other person can advise you re the: <"....which one of them is most challengeing/fun mathematically/technically?"> because that cannot be answered objectively, but only subjectively, as it is a combination of the following:

1. Personal likes/dislikes
2. God-given Aptitude
3. Ability to learn and assimilate new facts
4. Ability to remember older discarded facts (In case they surface somewhere in a Contract or Specification later)
5. Technical Ability
6. Whether you like taking Orders
7. Whether you like to travel
8. More, much more....Specify for yourself - Think a bit, add more factors in here yourself....
   

Regarding Engineers: The best Engineers are always hands-on practical people, unlike the theorists who are often quite impractical.

Engineers to be good, also need Management skills, and know how to get things done, at proper costs, on time, in spite of many difficulties.

Engineers need to be good organisers of:

1. Time
2. Materials
3. Manpower
4. Costs.
5. Other factors.....You should be able to think of a few more....

Never make decisions based on your emotions.

Emotions are fickle, change as often as the wind

Hope that assists you.

Kind Regards....

Thank you very much for your advise! There is just one detail, is getting seasick really that much of a problem for naval architects/structural engineers? Don't they usually sit and design and calculate forces on land?

That with beeing practical worries me a bit. I don't want to be an engineer that does hands on work. I want to be the one that uses math and mechanics to check if the structures/machines are functioning right, and that they won't fail. It can't be that important to be practicall in ALL engineering jobs?

In many chosen professions, you will need the skills to handle staff.

If you choose to be an Engineer, any sort of Engineer, you will need that learned ability in abundance.

Now most of the people an Engineer is in charge of (we are looking a few years into the future, here), will be folks who work with their hands: Fitters, welders, electricians, builders, HVAC people, drainlayers, pump experts, communications folk, concrete folk...you get my drift (Using a Naval term) here?

If you are a Naval Engineer, there's going to be a collection of Accountants, Captains, Mates, bosuns, diesel mechanics, reactor folk, and so on....

Now because all those people have practical experiences, you will need to understand most of their problems from their viewpoint, as well as from your "lofty position" as ""Engineer-in-Charge".

Thus what I'm saying, is that all Engineers need to be practical, not just theorists.

Some Engineers I have known were almost entirely useless, because it was all theory, as taught at University, not as taught in the "School of Hard Knocks" = the School of learning things from a practical viewpoint.

Even when a situation was explained to those "useless" Engineers, why the project would not work due to practical and/or people considerations, they often refused to accept that anyone else had an idea which could be worthy of their consideration, and in most cases, the Project ran over budget, or was not completed, until that "useless Engineer" was "shifted elsewhere = let go".

If you are able to "take on board" (To use another Naval term), what I've suggested, you would probably make an excellent Engineer, combining the practical with the theory and people skills.

Please note that all historically "Great Engineers", were firstly practical folks, who added the other skills to their practicality.

A theorist who is not practical, is never fully trusted, nor appreciated by others.

A wide experience, over many subjects, also makes you an interesting person, one who is not likely to bore others at the dinner-table, or elsewhere.

You will need logical thinking, combined with lateral thinking.

I'm not saying you have to do all those practical things yourself, but if you do some of them, you become a more complete person, which you will surely find invaluable both in your working life, and your family life too.

Hope that explains it somewhat.

Kind Regards....

Amen to Sparky. You will need to be very "down to earth" to get along with ironworkers, steamfitters, and riggers. Go visit the "best technical prank" thread to see what the nicer ones are capable of doing to a puffed-up engineer.

By the way, do you live where they have shipyards?

What do you mean with puffed up?:)

I live in Norway and the marine/naval education here is said to be of the best in the world. But unfortunately I don't think it is that many shipyards left. A lot of work has been outsourced I think.

In most settings like a shipyard, the skilled workers are well-trained and smart. They value experiential knowledge over "book knowledge" until they have seen that the engineer knows what he is talking about. If an engineer shows up and starts acting like he (or she) is more important than a welder, the engineer may find his steel toe boots welded to the deck.

Much of the shipbuilding is now done in Singapore. Hardly any is done in the U.S. I believe that the same is the case in Norway. My brother-in-law, is a graduate of Webb Institute and MIT (Naval Arch). These are the two top schools for N.A. in the U.S.

He went to work for a Norwegian Company, signed a three year Contract, spent a year in Norway, learned Norwegian, was relocated to Miami, and then let go. The story was that he was critical of the methods used, the ships were not fuel efficient and could not compete. The owners did not take kindly to these comments and they terminated him. Technically he was right though. This was 15 years ago and if anything, the situation is worse now than then. Before this he worked for Zappata in Houston (George H. W. Bush also worked there, I believe).

Both of his uncles graduated for the U.S. Naval Academy and were involved in shipping in NY and Houston. There is some small work, but again, outsourcing is the problem.

Also, I had a Norwegian nanny who lived with us for a year. She was from Bergen. The one thing I recall most was how poorly she spoke of the "Capital". To her, it was not Norway. But Bergen, that was good. Bergen is where the ships are built. These people have blond hair and blue eyes. That is also good.

TVP45 and eriew thank you very much for your answers they were really helpful.

I do really respect all kinds of work especially those who do the practical work, because I do know it is really hard to accomplish good results with your hands and beeing very thorough.

You're talking about beeing blonde with blue eyes. I am brown with dark hair and brown eyes, is this going to give me less respect in the engineering profession?

At the norwegian university they have 5 year master's degrees and you can't only get a bachelor so I have to be very sure that I am going into the right field before I apply. Civil engineers got structural engineering, and marine engineers can go into a lot of things at the university like, marine hydrodynamics, marine structural engineering, or marine cybernetics. I have read the course descriptions and it seems like they have a lot of subjects in common like "the finite element method", mechanics and other subjects that seem interesting.

From what I understand all of the subjects will be very challanging(check the spelling Sparkstation=)). But am I right when I say that it would be more oppurtunities for me in marine/naval engineering?, considering where I can use most math and physics? Are master students in marine structural engineering able to work with other structures than marine-structures?

I am glad that you cleared things up. There was some confusion about whether you meant to say Naval Architect or marine structural engineer, but since you were comparing to civil/structural, that seemed to indicate that you were indeed interested in engineering, rather than architecture. I like that you are taking the five year program for the Master's. It makes more sense than to get a BS, then go for the MS later.

There is quite a bit involved in engineering off-shore platforms in the North Sea. So, some of these interests are being taught in Norway to focus on these areas. This would not be as common in the US, at least not at MIT. There would be this need in the Gulf (Houston, New Orleans) maybe.

So yes, it seems that the decision centers around whether the structural engineering that you are interested in is going to be more weighted toward ocean structures (not necessarily ships), or land structures (bridges and buildings). The later it would seem would not focus on storm surges, wave forces, etc.

So you can decide soon which area seems more interesting to you now. I feel there could later be a change, but if you have a preference now, then focus on it. Later you can change.

Disregard my comments about those that come to the capital with the aim of destroying Norway. They are not a majority yet. Also, be wary of the trolls that sometimes can be found under the bridge! This part is only kidding so please take it as such.

Be/ael I used a lot of time to write the last message so you answered while I wrote, you came with valuable information as well.

I don't really know myself the difference with naval architecture and naval structural engineering, the university that I am planning on going to has a programme called marine structures, and it seems most like a structural engineering programme.