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Anonymous Poster

4000 psig leak

01/28/2008 9:45 AM

How can i calculate the zone of influence or distance to protect workers from a leak at 4,000 psig and possibly 350 degrees C?

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#1

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/28/2008 9:58 AM

Of what? Compressed Gas... about 5 miles (Lot of build up kinetic energy and if that blows, they will find parts of your building 4 miles away.)

Of water? not at 350c, that would again be compressed gas

a liquid? not sure .. the size of the leak would determine the distance it would shoot wouldn't it?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/28/2008 10:22 AM

<...Of water? not at 350c, that would again be compressed gas...>

Actually, the saturation pressure of water at 350degC is about 166bar, from steam tables, or just north of 2300psig so it would still be liquid water at 4000psig and this temperature. Of course, it would turn to superheated steam upon departure through the leak.

5 miles is still a good distance!

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/28/2008 10:50 AM

at 4000 psi, water will be a gas by definition. Not being picky or mean.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/28/2008 11:34 AM

At stated conditions, it is above the Critical Point pressure and below the Critical Point temperature, according to Mayhew & Rogers, "Thermodynamic and Transport properties of Fluids", Oxford Basil Blackwell, 1976 ISBN 0 631 96400 2. So how does it work out as a gas by definition (just curious)?

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/29/2008 11:27 AM

once you are above the criticle pressure, no matter what the temperature is, it has the internal enegy of a gas. There is no heat of vaporization, the energy is continous. Its physical properties will approach a liquid.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/28/2008 1:16 PM

I am just curious on this topic. Is there a link to a good phase diagram for water? I could not find one in my quick search that shows the phase of water at that temperature and pressure.

BTW, I like the 5-miles...

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#11
In reply to #5

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/29/2008 9:50 PM

Try this site, it is a fund of useful information and has all the tables you need, not sure of a diagram. http://www.spiraxsarco.com

Interestingly their tables only go up to 214 bar (3100 0dd psi). I find it strange that anyone would want to pump hot water at that pressure.

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#6

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/28/2008 5:22 PM

Sounds like someone is dealing with steam in a power plant.

The simple answer is you cannot protect against a 4000 psig steam leak. When the leak happens the area quickly fills up with steam and you cannot see anything. That doesn't matter since the steam leaking out at 4000 psig is invisible to the naked eye and makes so much noise you cannot hear anything, let alone where its coming from. Short of putting a second pipe around the first, there isn't much you can do. Preventative maintenance is the only real answer.

The way you find the leak is you walk along the pipe with a broomsitck waving in front of you. When it gets cut in half, you are close to the leak. Be very careful doing this or better yet, get someone else to do it. Even better, close the valve and hydro test the pipe.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/28/2008 10:42 PM

Wouldn't the second pipe around the first just be sliced open by the leak? (unless you meant squeezing the second pipe around the first to prevent the leak occurring). Not a rhetorical question - I've never dealt with hp steam - just asking out of interest...

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/29/2008 7:30 AM

Depends on how big the leak is and how close the pipes are togther. If exposed to the leak long enough it could erode its way through. By that time however you would know there was a leak and have hopefully done something about it. The idea is to keep sensitive areas from being directly impacted by the stream of high pressure gas. Basically you are making a shield of sorts to deflect the gas. Its not a very common thing, but its has been done in the past.

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/30/2008 7:18 AM

Thanks - & I liked the broom trick by the way :)

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Anonymous Poster
#9

Re: 4000 psig leak

01/29/2008 7:47 AM

Is it necessary to go to 4000psig? In other words, is this normal operating conditions or a special consideration?

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#13

Re: 4000 psig leak

03/30/2008 7:46 PM

If it's a steam leak:

1. Use the broom (for the poor fool that has to go in the space and start closing manual isolation valves).

2. Run like heck because it will cut & cauterize simultaneously.

Regarding a good table to reference....

http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/steam-engineering-tutorials/steam-engineering-principles-and-heat-transfer/what-is-steam.asp

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