Rust Proofing - With a Difference

That one's older than me and I knew God when she was just a wee girl. In principle, the idea has some truth; in practice, I don't think it actually works (or even could work), at least the last time I saw any tests.

I thought the metal parts of the car already had a negative charge due to being connected to the negative pole of the battery and that is the return leg of the electrics of the car!

sounds to me as if they are getting ready to powder coat the car, but without the powder coat. and last time i looked, all of my cars are neg grounded to the body, the frame and motor.

I know nothing about the theory you are discussing but I can report on my experience. I bought a 2nd hand Ford in Australia on the coast. It had some rust, some holes and some weeping rust stains from the layered joints. Now I've owned cars for over 40 years so have a little experience. The holes in the sills which I "bogged" would have needed to be redone 4 years ago and the rust between the layered joints - well there is nothing you can do about that. I fitted a South African made device which has 4 metalic stips which you place in areas which get wet when it rains. It is connected to the power supply. The strips have a conductive sticky strip and you remove the paint before placing them.. I've not even seen so much as a rust streak since. The unit is called RUST STOP model RS4 electronic rust protection. Whatever principle it uses it works.

Just be careful not to electrocute yourself.

Visit: EnduroSolv.net

In theory you use this every day, but probably don't know it. If you look at the top of your water heater, you should see a rather plat nut that's about an inch and a half wide. That is the top of a large magnesium rod that goes down inside your water heater. Interestingly enough, when water tries to corrode the steel tank in the center of your water heater, the magnesium rod gives up charge (and part of itself) to keep the steel tank from corroding. It doesn't last forever. Eventually the magnesium gets eaten away and you steel tank starts to corrode.

I've heard magnesium called "robot jewelery" because if you have a chunk of magnesium riveted to a piece of steel, the magnesium will sacrifice itself to keep the steel corrosion free.

I have no idea if that's what they're doing with this paint covering, but it is theoretically feasible.

"if you have a chunk of magnesium riveted to a piece of steel, the magnesium will sacrifice itself to keep the steel corrosion free."

This is of course a standard technique for protection of steel surfaces where in contact with acidic solutions or other solutions containing corrosive materials. It is one reason why galvanized steel (2-side galvanized in more recent years) is used in car body manufacturing. Paints used to coat galvanized surfaces have been under development for years. What the paint does is questionable (by me) from the rust standpoint other than protect the galvanized surface and thereby minimize pinholing.

I am actually surprized to see the initial post since most cars manufactured since the 1990's have used 2- side galvanizing.

<....if you have a chunk of magnesium riveted to a piece of steel, the magnesium will sacrifice itself to keep the steel corrosion free....>

This is the technique used on outboard motors, and indeed on larger vessels, to prevent the steel from corroding. Magnesium is used as a "sacrificial anode".

How to apply it in the context of a road vehicle, where the anode is not necessarily wetted at any given moment and the vehicle is galvanically isolated by the tyres/tires, defies description at present.

The advert was in a classic car magazine.

W thought that the negative earth issue would be incompatible with the technology as described, and I thought you lot would like a play...

It has been some time ago that I saw the same claims but then they used strong, rare earth, magnets all over your car body.

It seems they just hope for those gullible suckers to go for it. If this really works, it would have been in all cars by now, in all the shops and all over all your magazines and TV adverts. The fact it is not and you can only find it in some magazine or some TV bid program or on the web, clearly shows they cannot convince the market fully to make this take off some big way. I would be cautious, those magnets did not work either.

Sorry.

A serious point...what is the primary failure mechanism for cars these days? Once upon a time the engines needed loads of attention, the the bodies rusted through. These days they seem to last pretty well, but seem to collapse through multiple failure of minor things or accumulated bump/crash/scrape damage until 'beyond economical repair'?

Or maybe that's a new discussion thread?..sod it I can't be arsed to post it at the mo'

Del

<.....what is the primary failure mechanism for cars these days? Once upon a time the engines needed loads of attention, the the bodies rusted through. These days they seem to last pretty well, but seem to collapse through multiple failure of minor things or accumulated bump/crash/scrape damage until 'beyond economical repair'....>

That sounds like planned demise through loss of value over time. At some point, the temptation gets large to strip everything off it of any value to other vehicles (recycling), either tow or drive the thing to the scrappie (recycling), and replace it with another vehicle. PlbMak knows much more about this sort of thing, and can advise.

I am with you, it sounds like another scam......!

I understand the principle involved in the use of sacrificial anodes. BUT I am very sceptical of devices that DO WORK AND APPEAR TO CONSUME NO ENERGY. These devices would violate the First and Second Law of Thermodynamics. Often exactly how they work can not be explained adequately to scientist and engineers who should be well capable of understanding complicated new technology.

I have written about these devices on my web site and intend to add even more content on this subject in the near future. Also, I have included some links to other sites and intend to add more of those soon as well.

Dick Hourigan

visit: www.RichardHouriganInc.com

It does consume energy but they cannot make up their mind as exactly how much. It states in one page it is 70mA but in other pages on the same site is says 50mA.

If they are confused I suppose we have a right too.

Metal hulled ships use impressed current cathodic protection (ICCP) systems.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ship+electrical+impressed+current+cathodic+protection+&btnG=Search

This sounds like they are basing their claims along that line. Possible yes, probable I don't Know.

Brad

There is not a lot on their site that instills me with a great deal of confidence. The 7 year warranty is for faulty components (and it doesn't even restart if a new replacement unit is sent out). No where on the site do they guarantee or prove that it does anything or offer a refund or anything if you find that the product is a scam that doesn't work.

If it really worked as it said it would (by turning your car body into a capacitor using the inner layer paint and primer as the dielectric, the car body as the -ve plate and the small +ve plates slapped on to the inside of the car body), and it operates on an output of 600VDC, well that is rather interesting (although the devices output current is going to be low as the input is only around 50mA at 12V).

From the website

The high concentrations of electrons cause the surface to become covered by a layer of electrons. These electrons are held static by the paint. The layer of electrons prevents or retards corrosion by lowering the metals voltage potential which means the metal becomes less reactive and therefore less likely to corrode.

Looks like another scam using poorly implemented scientific principles to me, and with little or no possible way of getting your money back or easily proving that it works (or doesn't) within the allotted 7 working day period for refund.

I can think of better ways to spend 159 pounds thank you. If you will excuse me I have a cheque to write out to another company for $15,000 to cryogenically freeze my stereo cables to alter their structure to enhance the sound.

That is typical pseudoscience talk designed to fool people with a poor science education.

I compete with people who try to use permanent magnets and static electricity in the Water Treatment Industry instead of the traditionally accepted chemical treatments that I sell. I deal with such claims with the following page on my web site.

http://www.richardhouriganinc.com/non-chemical_devices.html

Dick Hourigan

Your linked site http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html covers quite a few of the scams nicely. The same sort of science is employed in the audio cable industry (water molecules and sound molecules being very similar <groan>). The problem with those is that it is pretty much impossible for the user to tell the difference. Now if you will excuse me I have to try and figure out the polarity of my audio cable.

Wanna buy some Slick 50?

Thanks for the complement on that Link. Steve who runs that site is a retired Chemistry professor. He makes his case quite well.

Now regarding Slick 50...isn't that just a lubricant designed to increase fuel mileage, etc...by reducing friction?

Dick Hourigan

www.RichardHouriganInc.com

The answer is yes. If you look on the out drives of small boats you will find a block or nut made of Zinc. The Zinc becomes a sacrificial anode. The same way the Zinc plating does on highway guard rails. So, if one would paint the backside of more Nobel metal parts (fenders, doors, chassis) using a high solid Zinc paint, than one could expect to prevent corrosion. This was investigated back in the fifties by the automotive industry. It worked! Just consider the cost. There are a few people who spray Zinc using a wire and heat source to protect collector cars during restoration. Ship hulls are also sprayed with this process as well. The rough rule of thumb here is that you will need equal amounts of surface area for this type of corrosion protection. Thats a lot of Zinc. I am just wondering...who is taking the car apart?

Thanks to everyone who posted. It looks like we were right - we didn't believe it (the product) would work, although we do understand about sacrificial anodes.

I thought it would raise a smile/grimace here...now where did I put that publicity for the Free Energy Machine....

<ducks>

Although I cannot vouch for the quality of this particular device, the science for this type of system is actually well proven. The general term is "Impressed Current Cathodic Protection". It has nothing to do with magnetics, but works in a manner similar to the sacrificial type systems described in several posts. We use a similar design to protect a good-sized hydroelectric plant. It has also been used on underground storage tanks and long pipelines.

There are several types of anodes. Some materials, such as zinc or magnesium, erode rather quickly. Others, notably platinum, erode so slowly that they are considered non-consumables (they will last as long as the expected lifecycle of the protected equipment). Based on information in the website, I suspect that the "capacitive couplers" are the anodes.

More information on ICCP systems can be found here, and much more info on various types of corrosion and prevention is available here.

First a "large concentration of electron on the paint" is called static. I got that all the time, don't need to buy any device to do that and I don't think I'll like that when I open the door or filling up the tank.

Then with everyone's reference to marine application of similar device, it work in boat doesn't mean it works on car. Reason is simple, electric circuit. Two pieces of metal touching is only half the circuit, it'll need another path to allow electron to move to get it to work. Sea water around the boat complete the circuit. Electron flow from one metal to another to sea water and back. As we all know air doesn't conduct electricity well unless it high voltage. So unless the device output voltage high enough to ionize air or we dump the car into the sea, it won't work.

Funny I don't think I'll do either to my car.

Oh pleeaasseee!