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Rest at ground

03/11/2008 1:53 PM

I am a senior in high school. I am in an Engineering Design and Development class. For this class, students work in groups to invent a prototype to solve a problem that the group thinks needs a solution. I am in a group of four. The four of us chose to create a product that can put the windows up in a car while the driver or passengers are no longer in the car. To do this we are using an RF transmitter and receiver similar to a remote door un-locker or starter. We are also using a Crutchfield Window Module AU-93. In the instructions to the Module, it says, "the AU-93 requires a rest at ground system for its built-in electronic sensor to shut off the window motors once the windows have rolled all the way up." When we tested the Module in a car door, the window motor did not shut off once the window was completely closed. We are unsure as to what exactly "rest at ground" means or if there is a specific meaning for the context and are hoping someone knows. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

T.Adams

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#1

Re: Rest at ground

03/11/2008 3:14 PM

Here is the manufacture web site Omega

Hit the lowest tab on the left for technical support. I would just send an email to the Contact Us email address. They will be the best resource for your question.

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#2

Re: Rest at ground

03/11/2008 3:26 PM
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#3

Re: Rest at ground

03/11/2008 7:53 PM

I think this refers to the grounding system. Some vehicles actually have the whole chassis connected to the positive, while the wiring is negative. Other vehicles have the whole chassis connected to the negative, while the wiring is positive. (Asian and US cars, most are chassis negative, while European - chassis positive, not sure though).

I think your window module needs to be chassis negative....

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#4

Re: Rest at ground

03/11/2008 10:57 PM

Not to be a naysayer, but "Mr. Safety says: Better buy product liability insurance."

The first time little Johnny gets choked to death you will need it.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Rest at ground

03/12/2008 7:52 AM

Let the lawyers deal with it when it's ready to go to product intent design. Innovation would be completely stifled if every inventor stopped to worry about the legal aspects of every new idea.

Or, to put it differently, blame yourself the next time you fall off a ladder!

On the other hand a sensor that knows when the window is truely in the "up" position and a self-reversing circuit such as those used in a garage door opener would likely solve the problem of things getting caught in the window as it's closing. But that might over complicate the project, so stick with what you're doing and have an addendum in case you're asked.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Rest at ground

03/12/2008 11:43 PM

It is no reflection on whether it is a good idea to note that there may be safety issues. Letting lawyers deal with problems that better engineering might completely preclude is a stick your head in the sand solution. Engineers should always consider the safety aspects of their designs. Telling them to let the lawyers worry about that part is circumspect at best, probably foolish and self centered.

Practically speaking, the task of differentiating between normal variations in lifting motor torque and the compression of soft tissue is no small task. Sure once you have compressed the tissue to a point you will ascertain a jam but injury may already result. What is the value in failing to expose a developing designer to the need for considering safety? This is a real world with real people and designs must make every effort to prevent injury. Are you so naive to think no auto manufacturer, in the 50 years of power window technology has ever had this idea? Get real, the need is very small and the liability is very large. No auto manufacturer would touch this. Why not encourage someone to go back to the drawing board and come up with a better idea than encourage one that has little real need and very definite safety issues?

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Rest at ground

03/13/2008 1:45 PM

And one other thing, your statement:

"Innovation would be completely stifled if every inventor stopped to worry about the legal aspects of every new idea."

Really? On what authority do you present this dictum? Are inventors so weak of mind that they would all cower in a corner if not given total freedom to design without any concern whatsoever as to the total effect of their creation?

Please tell me that you don't really believe such nonsense.

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#5

Re: Rest at ground

03/11/2008 11:07 PM

Looks to me like Techno nailed it.

Keep up the good work T.Adams. We need more inquisitive minds like yours out there in future land. Come back and tell us how it worked out.

BTW: That AH! HAH! feeling you get when you figure something out, keeps on happening.

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#7

Re: Rest at ground

03/12/2008 8:32 AM

What kind of vehicle are you installing the AU 93 in?

The Au 93 had a current sense cut off circuit if I remember correctly. If you are hooking it to a switch circuit (leading to relay bank), not a motor drive circuit it will not stop on its own.

I have installled Omega products since the 80's, wrote installation help guides for Code alarm products, 1st NAME (National Academy of Mobile Electronics) instructor in Florida card 0001, and represented 4 other car alarm companies. I might know something about this subject.

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#8

Re: Rest at ground

03/12/2008 11:47 AM

good day

don't know if this will help but you might want to put out a contact to Canada Inventors College Organization www.inventorscollege.org , send a e mail via that web site to Jim or Otto. right now they are setting up the ontario competition for high school inventors being held in Simcoe Ontario, if you are near the border it will be well worth attending this admission by preregistration only event. you just might rub elbows with the executives of one or more candian automakers research labs looking into the feasability of such a device for inclusion on one of thier series of luxury cars and high end s.t.u. units.

'da ber by the way if you send a email to jim tell him i advised sending the eamail. otto won't have a clue who you are talking about.

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#10

Re: Rest at ground

03/13/2008 1:05 PM

Depending on the car, which I don't know what it is, you can sometimes access the CAN bus and achieve the desired rollup event without accessing the motor wires. Example would be an s-10 Blazer 2007.

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#12

Re: Rest at ground

03/13/2008 9:18 PM

If amperage excedes x then stop

Reverse window.

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