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Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/11/2008 10:44 PM

I am attempting to make a 1 rev/day drive for my 12 inch astronomical telescope. The drive needs to be continouous and constant velocity if the stars are to remain fixed in the field of view. I dont want to see the stars move backwards and forward as teeth of the gearing chain mesh and unmesh

The final drive is a harmonic drive (200:1) from an old linear accelerator. Because it works by distorting an inner gear (teeth on the outside of a thin walled tube by an inner rubbing elliptical cam) to mesh with the teeth on the inside of larger cylindrical drive, that there are many teeth meshing simultaneously which should produce a smooth constant velocity action. Can anyone with experience of such drives confirm this?

I wish to drive the harmonic drive with a worm drive. I intend to make a worm and worm wheel to give me a high ratio (eg ~200:1) by cutting the teeth into a circular piece of polythene (about 150 mm diameter and 16mm thick) using a threaded rod with flutes ground into it (like a tap). I would then use a fresh piece of threaded rod for the worm. I do not have access to a lathe to cut my own worm, and envisage using a piece of accurately machined "all- thread" of say 12-15 mm diameter and ~2mm pitch.

If I make the worm run in close contact to the wheel, I expect that the worm will contact the wheel continuously, so the action should be smoothe, but will it be constant velocity??

Is the thread form of the worm critical to having the worm and wheel work smoothly and constant velocity. Would an AJAX threaded bar make a better worm thread form than Whiworth or UNC?

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#1

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/12/2008 1:29 PM

Well i can suggest that worm and worm wheel is goo enough if machined properly to have minor backlash.Buy material wise i suggest nylon for it.I tried with this material and it gives better results as any plastic material is considered for gear.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/12/2008 11:24 PM

Car windscreen wiper motors and most electric window motors are worm and wheel drive. With worm drive you do not have any gear backlash but the worm has an end float which allows for growth etc. while the gearing is good the ratio is way to fast for 1 revolution per day. so I'd suggest using say a windscreen wiper motor driving a small pulley from a shredder or photocopier and making up a large wheel for belt drive (again no backlash in belt drive). Windscreen motors generally run at about 60 rpm so your ratio will need to be 86,400:1. this brings me to plan "B" use an old electric clock, belt driven at 2:1 from the hour hand drive.

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#3

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/12/2008 11:40 PM

Although I do have at least one harmonic drive/stepper motor in my stash, I haven't used one to drive a telescope. However, since a telescope essentially magnifies any error in the drive chain, I suggest that:

1. You use the worm to drive the telescope and the harmonic drive to drive the worm (rather than vice versa, as I believe you suggested. A well made worm gear should be absolutely smooth - The harmonic drive does have teeth, so there is going to be at least a bit of cogging. The worm will divide that cogging by its ratio.

2. This is too sensitive an application to use anything like all-thread. You need very precise and smooth threads, preferably ground; very good bearings supporting the shaft, and shaft bearing surfaces very accurately concentric with the worm.

3. Although this is a pretty large telescope by amateur standards, hopefully it is well balanced, so the worm gear does not need to be very strong. Good luck on making the teeth come out right at the end of the revolution without an indexing system... I'd start searching junkyards/surplus vendors for a gear that can be adapted.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/13/2008 12:30 AM

Why not belts & pulleys? All the parts would be obtainium.

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#5

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/13/2008 1:46 AM

I assume you realize you need a sidereal drive not a true 24 hour clock drive. A friend who was a watch maker by profession and part time astronomer as a hobby decided to make his own telescope sidreal drive.. He also dabbled in electronics.

He opted to build an electronic clock drive because the mechanical drive would have too many issues such as you rightly anticipate. Plus a few more.. And he had the knowledge plus the machine shop to do it. That was 20 years ago. Today you can buy for a modest cost an electronic drive from telescope makers like Meade. You could hardly buy the materials necessary for making a mechanical gear drive for the price of the electronic drive.

The last Meade I bought ( a toy actually; more to use as a terrestial telescope than astronomical observation)) had the sidereal drive (electronic ) included no charge. It was actually a two axis drive so it did not need the equaltorial mount. Al lyo uhad to do was zero the drive by alignment on Polaris.

Or is this a project for the hell of it just to prove you also can duplicate what is now obsolete technology?

I have seen reduction gear boxes where the worm is cut with a pronounced curve to give a greater number of gears meshed at any given time. total arc of engagement was someting like 15- 20 degrees. I think it was a piece of military surplus gear that I scrapped. Unfortunately I do not recall exactly what the original purpose was for.

For a 12" you might need some kind of servo amplifier to power a larger electric motor, unless the telescope is very accurately balanced and supported. Outdoors you have to anticipate the inertia of the larger mass being buffeted by breezes.

I don't think the polyethelene is stable enough for a precision gear. Platics tend to have a high co-efficient of expansion/contraction with temperature changes. If you start observing at twilight and run through the night, ambient temperature tend to fall. That would cause your plastic part to contract. As the diameter changes so would the gear mesh and possibly the speed. At the very least you will end up with a slop fit when warm or a too tight fit (binding) at colder ambients.

Hand cut threads will not be smooth enough to ensure a perfectly even and smooth engagement under all conditions. Chances are good there wil be some jerkiness and that gives blurry photography. If gear engagement and disengagement is going to cause blurs, so will a typical hand cut thread.

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#6

Re: Making a constant velocity gearing

03/13/2008 4:06 AM

First: I should say that I have no experience in any of these areas.

However I think you need to define for at least yourself over what period of time jitter is to be considered a problem. In other words are you just looking through the scope or are you taking photos? If photos how long will the exposure be? For what period of time will you want to accurately track one point in the sky? If you're looking for differences over a period of several days, your servo will be very different from that required for a few second "exposure".

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#7

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/13/2008 5:07 AM

Can you fit an anti-backlash gear somewhere in the drive to keep the train preloaded?

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#8

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/13/2008 11:53 AM

I will suggest worm drive connected with VFD to motor so that you can reduce size of worm gear.

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#9

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/13/2008 5:05 PM

Hi

Just to add a word of caution, be wary of using automotive parts - see Guest's contribution mentioning windscreen wiper motors. Most automotive motors are built to last about 2500 hours of continuous running, which is about 4 months of running 24/7. Depending on the usage you want get out of your drive this may be too little. Also some motors have straight winding slots which lead to 'cogging', i.e. the motor does not exhibit true constant angular velocity when running, which in a telescope application may be unacceptable, even with the worm drive.

What it all boils down to is that if the life expectancy is OK for you, try it. Usually a motor from a wreckers yard is cheap, and if it works - good. If not, it was not expensive!

Regarding further reduction gears - I would bet on a number of worm reductions to remove any gear induced vibrations. Maybe someone else has some ideas on harmonic drives with helical teeth?

Good luck!

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#10

Re: Making a cconstant velocity gearing

03/16/2008 10:40 PM

There is a very good book called "Gears and Gear Cutting" by Ivan Law from Brittain. It is part of the Workshop Practice Series produced produced by Special Interest Model Books. I don't have the ISBN with me but it is available from many sources and retails for about 9 quid in UK or $20 Aus. Another author in the series called Harold Hall shows some good ways to eliminate backlash when machining which may interest you. I think it was Wikipedia that had a good story about the type of gearing you've described (harmonic drive).

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