Previous in Forum: Parameters for 15mw Steam Turbine   Next in Forum: Increasing the force of a pneumatic cylinder
Close
Close
Close
15 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/14/2008 8:28 AM

I have one question concerning air/gas ratio control.

In my plant, we used outside air for the combustion and we set the air/gas ratio once a year.

We know that air temperature depends on the moment of the day and also on seasons (minimal temp = -10 deg C, max's is 25 deg C in Netherlands).

Let's suppose our ratio Air/Gas is perfectly set up with the right excess of air (which I have to check), do these temperatures difference have a big impact on our gas consumption?

Thank you very much for your help!

William

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#1

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/14/2008 10:23 AM

As its a ratio of mass flow, the temperature difference is minimal as the temperature must be in kelvin absolute units...

So the ambient temperature is varying from 263 to 298 K which is only a 12% change approximately//..

Is that small difference going to make that much difference? Consider also that the incoming gas pressure is related directly to ambient pressure, with a storm front approaching and the ambient pressure dropping to less than 960 milibar, or a warm weather front approaching with the ambient pressure rising to over 1030 millibar - a change of approx 7%.

12% doesn't sound much of a change when the weather is changing by 7%!!

John.

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hop around Toronto, New York & Karachi
Posts: 1876
Good Answers: 19
#2

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/14/2008 11:22 AM

Try putting in an Oxygen Trim if it is not expensive to leave out the guess work and modulate the air/gas ratio automatically. Will pay off eventually.

__________________
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. Woodrow Wilson
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ohio. USA
Posts: 578
Good Answers: 30
#3

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/14/2008 11:31 AM

You can estimate your variability in air density based on different atmospheric conditions. That will tell you a range in how much "off" you might be.

You may be able to find tables that relate air density to temperature and barometric pressure. If you can't find the charts, the equations are easy to handle for an engineer.

__________________
Everything I know about opera I learned from Bugs Bunny
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#4

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/14/2008 7:39 PM

Why not put an inexpensive excess O2 monitor in the exhaust and run it at, say 2%? Then you could adjust the A/F ratio as often as you feel like it. You'd save money on fuel and minimize pollution.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12
#6
In reply to #4

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/15/2008 6:37 AM

I agree on that. If you have a forced draught you can use the O2 content to control speed, louvres, etc.

If you don't you will have to train your operators/firemen to adjust yor furnace to the O2 levels.

In both cases you have to look at all temperatures involved : stack, skin, flame pattern, impingment, etc. Iam certain "HEATER SPECIALISTS" can give a lot more of reasons to visualy inspect and trim burner. This is independant of the A/F ration wich in many case determines the "Energy Efficienty"

Hope this doesn't sound too conservative as today the control system mastes and the outside control is at a low appreciation.

Siegfried

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hop around Toronto, New York & Karachi
Posts: 1876
Good Answers: 19
#9
In reply to #4

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/16/2008 1:11 AM

I mentioned that: " Try putting in an Oxygen Trim if it is not expensive "

__________________
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. Woodrow Wilson
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/16/2008 5:22 AM

Yes, you did. I missed your posting when I did mine. A "good answer" to you!

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hop around Toronto, New York & Karachi
Posts: 1876
Good Answers: 19
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/16/2008 6:03 AM

No I thought Mine was different than your or not ? With technology things do change. Just to clarify.

__________________
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. Woodrow Wilson
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/16/2008 6:21 AM

Yeah, I'm used to automatic ones, but many are manual.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hop around Toronto, New York & Karachi
Posts: 1876
Good Answers: 19
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/16/2008 6:29 AM

Yeah but mind you these O2 Trims are only good with the New Burners or where the O2 level is within 1.5% to 2.0%. On older Boilers not viable because of low turn-down ratio. Manual indicator & control then his option.

__________________
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. Woodrow Wilson
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1733
Good Answers: 248
#5

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/15/2008 1:42 AM

"do these temperatures difference have a big impact on our gas consumption?"

Yes that is true, and for this reason, sometimes in certain process in oil refining, we have to use a well designed air or gas preheater.

__________________
It is better to be defeated on principles, than to win on lies!
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15
#7

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/15/2008 3:08 PM

Gas consumption efficiency depends on the efficient used of fuel that provides the optimum amount of heat generated which can be determined from the refuse and in flue gas. Inefficies are usually caused by the loss of combustibles charged and the incomplete or partial combustion of the combustibles burned. In the case of complete combustion, an amount of air is needed and a sufficient heat is required to oxidize the fuel. Therefore, the difference of the ambient temperature can influence the impact of gas consumption. Excess air also promotes an efficient fuel consumption but a greater amount can lower the flame temperature which affect negatively the heat transfer efficiency.

edbesas

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hop around Toronto, New York & Karachi
Posts: 1876
Good Answers: 19
#8

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/16/2008 1:09 AM

Willam - Go to The Engineering Tool Box. Click "Combustion" extreme left. Click "Combustion Efficiency & Excess Air". You will find the chart and answer to your question.

__________________
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. Woodrow Wilson
Reply
Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Breda, Netherlands
Posts: 6
#14

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

03/18/2008 4:48 AM

Thanks for your replies.
I will first call the company maintaining our burners to know the air/gas ratio, the weird thing is that they don't write it down on their report....

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chennai, TAMIL NADU, INDIA
Posts: 108
Good Answers: 1
#15

Re: Air/Gas Ratio Control

08/14/2011 1:35 PM

DEAR FRIEND,

the Answer for your question is YES.

Secondly Temp. of -10 Deg.C to 25 Deg.C will have an impact on the RELATIVE HUMIDITY which is to be accounted for.

Thanks,

RAJESWARI.

Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 15 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Abdel Halim Galala (1); DaveB (1); ducon (5); edbesas (1); Electroman (1); Mercor (1); rajeswari (1); TVP45 (3); William_Robyn (1)

Previous in Forum: Parameters for 15mw Steam Turbine   Next in Forum: Increasing the force of a pneumatic cylinder

Advertisement