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Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/02/2008 3:20 AM

In my place of work I have a problem that I can't find a solution for. We manufacture can ends and part of the process necessitates the measurement of temperature on a line of ends in the upright position and stacked in a tube with the top section open. The problem is that currently we use a bimetal thermocouple which is in contact with the passing can ends and as you can imagine this cause mechanical problems for the thermocouples. I have looked at infra red temperature measurement but because the can ends are aluminium and relective this causes innacuracies in measurement. Does anybody know of of a non contact type of temperature measurement on slow moving reflective materials? If you could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

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#1

Re: Temperature measurement on moving parts

04/02/2008 7:55 AM

Yes!! use infrared!!

You haven't looked closely enough at infrared temperature measuring systems if you have written them off because of the surface finish.

ALL professional infrared thermometers will have an emissivity control setting, allowing you to adjust the emissivity to suit reflective aluminium tubes.

John.

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Temperature measurement on moving parts

04/02/2008 9:10 AM

Thank you for that answer. I will investigate further.

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#2

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/02/2008 8:49 AM

Electoman is 100% correct. Infrared units can, for low temp hand helds, run about $100, to many thousands for more sophisticated units. I'm sure you can find what you need here:

http://www.newark.com/

or here:

www.omega.com

It sounds like this is exactly what you need.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/02/2008 9:09 AM

Thank you for that answer. I will investigate further.

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#5

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/02/2008 9:59 AM

Don't investigate, use it!

Get a good quality infrared temperature sensor and then obtain the emissitivity of your product. Think of emissitivity as a correction factor. It will compensate for the reflectivity of the aluminum and give you accurate readings.

Since you're measuring only one type of product (aluminum can ends), you won't have any problems using infrared. Once you set your emissitivity, you're good to go and your measurements will be consistent.

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 9:07 AM

About 15 years ago, I worked for a company in Concord, MA that manufactured non-contact IR sensors.. Williamson Corp What you are trying to do is what they do..!

Good Luck..!

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Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 1:44 AM

please send your full details with diagram & what you want online or ff line temp. measurements.

ashok chauhan

Tycon automation

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#7

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 7:56 AM

Both Raytek and LAND have good products and broad industrial experience in difficult applications.

I would suggest you go towards an OEM supplier rether than a catalog shop like Omega for local technical support. You should be able to have convincing demos from your local distributor.

See http://temperatures.com/ for very interresting and educative content.

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#9

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 10:39 AM

Electroman & others have steered you right. Prices may be even lower than described, though:

NON-CONTACT POCKET THERMOMETER
Cen-Tech
93983-1VGA
$12.99
$9.99

NONCONTACT INFRARED THERMOMETER
Cen-Tech
96451-1VGA
$59.99
$39.99

HANDHELD INFRARED THERMOMETER WITH LASER SIGHT
Cen-Tech
93984-5VGA
$19.99

Where you see two prices, the higher is the regular "list" price at Harbor Freight; the lower is the current sale price. I bought the $9.99 one for myself a couple of months back . . . you'd probably need to compare readings from your current bimetallic-and-contacting system to what this showed, and make a table of correction factors (no offset, as far as I know, for emissivity - but hey, it's only $10!). Depending upon your level of precision / accuracy, you may not even need more than it offers.

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#10

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 11:32 AM

I don't think a cheap handheld is in order here. I think a permanent mount, with emissivity control is in order. The cheap handheld are fine for a spot check, but their reproducibility is in question. After all, this sounds like a multi-million dollar process line here.

http://www.raytek.com/Raytek/en-r0/ProductsAndAccessories/InfraredPointSensors/ThermalertSeries/Raytek+XR/Default.htm

There a bit of money up front, but rock solid, with great customer support.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 11:42 AM

Thanks Bricktop, yes it is a very large operation and it is a number of fixed thermocouples that we need to replace. We tried many models but always the problem was that not only the reflection from the Aluminium but also that the lines move at approx 30 ft a minute. We tried various models but always had to revert to the old tried and tested but not maintenance free thermocouples.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 11:44 AM

Sorry that last reply was from me but I inadvertently made the comment without logging in. Mea Culpa

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 1:35 PM

I have worked for a number of companies in Ireland, if you want to chat over any problems please just give me a call or have a look at my website, if you still have problems.

www.marchdesigns.com

John.

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/03/2008 2:39 PM

Yes, at my company we use many Raytec products. Raytec is a division of Fluke instruments. You would be wise to contact Raytec and have a rep. come to your factory, and tailor a system to meet your needs. I know they have high speed units too. As stated before, they're not cheap, but they are very dependable, highly accurate, and their customer support is unsurpassed.

Good Luck!

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#15
In reply to #11

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/04/2008 9:52 AM

Uh huh, obviously we cannot see what your process looks like so we can only give advice on products and not solutions.

Best way is to contact a sales rep or sales engineer (is there a difference? ).

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/04/2008 11:14 AM

Oh! there ''sometimes'' is one.

The SMC rep telling me that I could connect a valve manifold directly to my computer since it had a DB25 connector was not an engineer.

I hope!

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/04/2008 12:39 PM

LOL I've had some classic comments by sales 'engineers', why they can't say "I don't know" beats me...

Instead they have to make a stab at an answer to complete the sale, sometimes its hilarious to hear one confidently announce that the product has x, y, and Z properties... and when you ask him "Why does it have those properties?" ... the conversation tends to take a leap off a cliff!!

John

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Temperature Measurement on Moving Parts

04/04/2008 1:08 PM

The end of the story is that I became red, told him to get serious and left the room.

He asked my partner if I was having a bad day!

Still is our running gag whenever I get frustrated...

Empathetically:"Are you having a bad day?"

Relieves all tension!

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