Hello Birdblaster

It depends on the amount of torque you need at the other end of the lever: As the other end lengthens, the torque available there lessens.

This is what I have done at times, to achieve the result you are hoping for:

If the amount of torque needed at the operating end of the lever was not an issue, then make a single lever, with a variety of punched or drilled holes in the operating end (the end which is on the other side of the pivot point from the solenoid).

You can then use a clevis, with pin, into whichever hole you need, to make any fine adjustments.

Of course you will need to ensure that there is room for your new extended lever to work.

Does that help you?

Kind Regards....

Hi and thanks for your reply

your reply is very helpful, however to be honest with you i dont know how to make a lever. What I am tring to do is, take a solenoid and make it move horzonal from 1 inch say this time and maybe 12 inches the next time the solenoid is activated.

I have been researching if i should use gears or mechinal cables and at this point i have no clue to what direction i intend to go. I have the abilibty to do this, I think but i dont have the part knowledge , meaning i do not know what the parts are called so its very hard to locate the pieces that i need.

am i making this alot harder than is actually is? if you could point me in the right direction or if you have any sugestions , yoiu might add a few years of good living to my life

Thanks Ron

is it possible to use a lever to increase the amount of pull from 3/4 inch to 12 inches

Yes, it is possible, but your force will be reduced by the same factor you increase the stroke (i.e. 10x more stroke = 1/10 force).

is it also possible to regulate the amount of pull, meaning if i was in need of a 2 inch pull this time and a 5 inch pull the next time can i product something that would allow me to adjust the amount of pull with out producing a new lever each time

An adjustable link (either a threaded rod or multiple, pre-drilled fulcrum locations) should be possible, depending on your space limitations.

Is just knowing it's possible enough of an answer, or do you want sketches as well?

I dare you to do a sketch!

to be honest a sketch would save my life, because i have been tring to figure this out for a month. and i ammmmm tried

thanks ron

This is the general idea. To give you a sense of scale, the lever is 10" OAL, solenoid stroke is 3/4", distance between each of the three pivot holes is 1". By mounting the solenoid rigidly, you can have the fulcrum (pivot bracket) slide to each of the pivot holes and achieve different end strokes. This set-up allows the center-to-center distance of your solenoid and your string to remain constant (lever OAL does not change) as you change the stroke length. Does this help clear things up?

Hello CSM Engineer

You literally beat me to the draw.

Kind Regards....

Well, I couldn't let Mr. Truman Brain's challenge go unanswered, could I?

I take my hat off to you CSM Engineer! A mighty fine drawing indeed!

i will study this tonight and by tomorrow i should have it down, right now i do not understand how the back and forth motion takes place. I will study it and by tomorrow i will under stand it. I thank you for taking the time to do this for me. I will email you tommorow if that is ok

your a good guy

thank ron

oh i get it, the drawing on the fulcrum is the solenoid and because the fulcrum is 10" the 3/4 inch pull complets the cycle is that right?

one question, the fulcrum (pivot bracket) is this where i am to mount the solenoid rigidly? I ask this because the way that i understand it is, by moving the bracket to the different pivot hole, i will achieve a different stroke. so am i right to believe that attaching the solenoid to the pivot bracket and then attaching the pivot bracket to different pivots holes will achieve what it is i am looking for. so if i am right in my assumptions, now all i have to do now is figure out how my 3/4 pull affects the length of my lever and adjust accordingly,

you know you are really a smart guy wow, I ve been working at this for a month, lol thats crazy. are you a mech engineer?

thanks I really mean that, I will be so happy this month

ron

Ron-

Always happy to help a bro git sum!

While the solenoid and the pivot bracket should be mounted to the same structure (your deck rail, for example), if you want to be able to vary the end stroke, you should be able to change the distance between them. This will allow the location of your string to remain unchanged, even as you vary the stroke length. So, pick a stationary location for the solenoid to be mounted and mount the pivot bracket so that you can place it in several locations corresponding to the different pivot holes in the lever.

The calculations are fairly simple: if x & y are your stroke lengths, and a & b are the lengths of each side of your lever (measured from the pivot to the end) then x/y = a/b. So, if x=0.75 in (stroke of the solenoid) and you want y=6 in and you build the lever so that the distance from the solenoid to the pivot is 2 in, then the math is (0.75)/6 = 2/b. Therefore b=16 in. (distance from the pivot to your string).

A few things to keep in mind: 1) The ends of the lever do not travel in a straight line; they follow the path of an arc. You can see the effects of this in the right-hand pair of sketches in my drawing above: the solenoid moved closer to the pivot bracket at the end of the stroke. In your application, you can compensate for this by simply over-sizing your holes a bit to allow some travel in that direction. 2) A lever of this type is a speed multiplier: if your solenoid takes 1/10 sec. to travel the 0.75 in., the other end of the lever will complete its entire 6 in. stroke in the same 1/10 sec. In practice, this will be dampened somewhat by the slop in your mechanism, but still keep an eye on the end of that lever.

Good luck, and let me know if you have more questions, or if you want, I can work up a full set of prints and send them to you. Feel free to e-mail any time.

Regards,

CSM Engineer

it's late at night but dam dude your strong. i will figure and talk later when i have taken the time to understand all that you have say, then we will see if i can explain it all back to you. thanks / ron

Hi CMS

I was able to take a look at the math, the math is (0.75)/12 = 2/b. Therefore b=32 in. (distance from the pivot to your string). If my calulation is right, then the lever needs to be 32 inches long: is that correct? If tthis is correct then i will need to find a new way of doing things. The lever will be to long and i don't think that I can make it work in several areas. Is there another way to do this, where as the finished product is a nice neat little package?

Actually, it's a bit worse than that. The entire length of your lever (from connecting point to connecting point) is a+b=34 in. In practice you'll need a little more to account for the hole and some material around it. Now, if you can get the solenoid to within 1 in. of the pivot, the OAL of the lever is closer to 17-18 in.

Actually, it's a bit worse than that. The entire length of your lever (from connecting point to connecting point) is a+b=34 in. In practice you'll need a little more to account for the hole and some material around it. Now, if you can get the solenoid to within 1 in. of the pivot, the OAL of the lever is closer to 17-18 in.

With that in mind would it be better to rig up some type of worm gear system, I hoping to creat some neat little package.

Thanks / ron

If you have access to a small motor, I would suggest a small crank set-up.

The motor is the black object on the left, the black object on the right is a simple shaft support. The yellow bits are your crank arms with holes to adjust the stroke length. The string you can run up through an eye-screw (not shown) to maintain a constant height. This set-up only requires that you have 6" between the motor shaft and the rod your string is tied to in order to have a 12" stroke in your string.

Well this makes my effort in paint look ridiculous

I am taken it all in, will get back to you soon

thabnks ron

QUESTION, will i have to find a motor that rotates 180 degrees or use a controller

Nah, just find a timing switch that you can adjust to get one full rev out of. Or, let it run for a few seconds of back and forth shaking. For a motor, one of the fractional HP pancake models out of a box fan should work fine.

WOW is it that ez?

So will i have to manufacture the crank arms or can i buy the arms and all of the other pieces off the self?

Yup, that easy.

There are probably suitable components out there somewhere, but it's up to you to decide how much time you want to spend looking for them (I don't have a specific source - I just drew that up). If it was me, I would just make them myself out of some scrap aluminum or plastic (to keep the weight down). The motor I covered, the shaft support could just be a block of aluminum or steel with a bronze plain bearing in it, and the shafting can be just any nice, smooth steel rod you can find. If you really want to purchase components, try McMaster-Carr or MSC Industrial supply (drill rod makes great shafts) both companies have nice on-line catalogs and you'll normally have your stuff the next day.

Hello again Birdblaster

"save your Life" - sounds a bit drastic.....

Does the variable stroke need to be continuously the same length, or does each stroke have to be different, as determined each time by a person or control mechanism?

If you can advise the intended usage, it may be helpful.

Power/torque required at the operating end of the lever - how much is actually required?

Speed of operation: Advise time duration required for the operation of whatever that lever is attached to, at the output end?

Once you advise further, there may well be other methods of achieving your desired result.

Kind Regards....

I see, what I am tiring to do is line up to 2 solenoids facing each other. I want to add a sensor, shaft and controller and then take piece string and stretch it so that it connects the two solenoids together. I have ducks that love to come up onto my deck. So when the sensor picks them up, I would like for the solenoids to go off and shake the line up to 12 inches touching the ducks and causing them to run in the other direction.

So the stroke I'm thinking will be the same every time and the torque needed is just enough to move the line and the shaft back and forth. The line and the shaft will be light weight and the speed needed is just a few quick passes. The duration I'm hoping can be controlled by a cheap timer. The solenoid is a c-15 deltrol , has ¾ inch pull 120 volt

There should be enough area to rig up almost anything. This sounds strange I know, but I have a bet with my wife-ee and I don't intend to lose. To loose means 1 month with out and a win means 1 month living life with a smile on my face, if you know what I mean.

I told her that it could be done, and I sure mean to make it happen.

Do you think you can help me, and really it would be is like saving my life

Thanks / Ron

oh the 1 inch or 12 inch deal is a luxury deal, it's so that i can say you can set for 1 inch or 12 inches, what ever you choose baby.

I thinks thats funny

Thanks ron

Foot note! It's kind of small int it! but you get the gist! The main bit is the small lever! this moves through 90^o, so the two back to back solenoids have a combined extension of about 40mm. Bit of pythag tells us a²+b²=c² in a right-angled triangle! So a²+b²=40² Quick bit of button pushing gives you about 28mm from the main pivot! Then it's just a case of putting the string at the desired hight!

hi brain,

I cant see the little words, would you try to explain it to me again.

thanks /ron

What he has there is a bell crank. Instead of the lever being straight, it has a 45 degree bend at the fulcrum. By doing that and placing your solenoids back-to-back to double your pull length, he's accomplished a 12" pull from a 12" lever-arm. Actually, the length of pull from a 12" arm will be closer to 12 * √2 = 17". Imagine a string attached to the end of the lever in the lower sketch running through an eye-screw. When energized, the lever will pop up 90 degrees (top picture) and the string will run from the eye-screw up at a 45 degree angle to the tip of the lever arm. Placing the end of the string lower down on the lever arm will result in correspondingly shorter lengths of pull. It's a good design, if the solenoids can generate the torque required.

Point 'a' and point 'b' are pivots fixed to the same back mounting plate! The solenoids are only fixed at points 'a' and 'c'! When you energize the solenoids, point 'c' will be pulled backwards by 40mm thus raising the string 12" off the ground! The other lever at the other end will be pulled up by the string. To stop this lever going over the top, put a little stop (a screw or nail) in the way! The spring is just to help it back down after you de-energize!

As CSM said, make the levers light weight otherwise you could overload the solenoids!

Hope this helps!

Mr brain,

with your design how will i get your design to swing toward the duck -vs- raise from the ground? perhaps i am misunderstanding

It swings from the side! Don't know if that's what you really want, but it may get you on your back for a month!

ha ha hahahahah thats funny, but i'm to dumb to get how it works. it usually takes a few days for it to sink in, I have to study it. CMS explained it to me also. Here is what i was thinking tell if you think it will work. Is it practicial?

What format do i use to up load a corel draw drawing?

Looking forward to seeing it BB!

Hey guys

i spent the day making your designs. CSM your design was easy to make because i understood it. Brain it took me a while to get what it was that you were saying but after a little study and alot of mistakes, i was able to make it happen.

Earier, Me and wife-ee, we were looking out the window and one of the ducks, we call him ricky; he walked up to Cms's design and that dam thing cranked over and whiped him right in the throat. ha ha ha hahahahahaha, He went running like crazy.

I told my wife-ee that I needed to be honest ,so i spilled the beans and told her where the designs came from. I am very interested to see how the ducks will react to Brains design . My Wife-ee thinks , both are very good designs, however she wants to wait until tommorrow morning to see how effective they truly are. So shes only going to make a partial payment tonight. If you know what i mean !

Gentlemen, its on like donky kong and i am in there like swim wear. ha ha........ha hahaaa lol. Its time for me to run, there's things that need to be done. Talk to you later

Good skills to ya BB! Remember, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!!!!

Here is another scenario guys; there is a wall that is 48' long and 14' tall. There are swallows (little) birds that have the ability to take dirt and make nest right on the side on our homes wall. We clean the wall almost every day. My question is, is it possible to create a motorized slide system that has the ability to travels 48' carrying with it (the load) a 14' long aluminum rod. This slide system needs not only to travel down 48' but it also needs to return and continue this motion continuously. Travel speed 1 loop every 2 mins. weight of the rod is 7lbs

Sure it is, but it may not be cheap. Have you tried these?

Sir......its been done........BUT LETS WORK ON YOUR PROBLEM...NOT THE METHOD..if that is within the Queens-bury rules in your bet.

This works very well.

We use it to protect a high walled industrial building from graffiti bandits.....MOUNTING IT 12 FEET+ ABOVE GROUND ..OUT OF EASY REACH......

but it was designed for your problem...works for 20 to 25 feet..the noise is as much a deterrent as the water for critters.....depending on area need covered........water BEST for graffiti jerks.......MAYBE DUCKS WILL LOVE THE SHOWER!...the noise is as much a deterrent as the water for critters.

tell the wife you had it CUSTOM PROTO TYPED DESIGNED....don't let her see the box..........JUST PLUMB IT IN TO WATER...ADD 9 VOLT BATTERY....'n drop your jeans.

A WHOLE MONTH????????

IN THE RELM OF THE BET "YOU CAN GET BEHIND FURTHER AND CAUGHT UP QUICKER THAN ANY OTHER 'COIN'"

MR. GUY

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Hello Birdblaster

Is your wife feeding the ducks, to win the bet?

Kind Regards....

thats funny, I had better watch more closly. I will get back to you on that project, havent had time in the last day or so

thanks/ron