metal recycling

"Need a quick answer to..." ???????????????????????????

Need for quick answer need very short and brief question.

What is the reasonable beginning &or end recycle "value" (referring in particular to platinum, palladium) of a typical passenger automobile catalytic converter in $$US?

He asked,

"WHAT IS THE REASONABLE BEGINNING AND / OR END RECYCLE VALUE OF A TYPICAL PASSENGER AUTOMOBILE CATALYTIC CONVERTER IN US$?"

Can you hear me now?

Typically you get $10 to $20 for a catalytic converter. It depends on the size and type. Some can go as high as $100

The quick answer is that the value of recyclables has gone through the roof. I have been in the recycling business for 20 years and have never seen anything like it. Long story short, this is a supply and demand issue. When prices are high people will come out of the wood work.

Get it while you can.

Jim Nickerson

this is the type of question that most people on CR4 do not want to see hear or answer.

Why? you may ask.

Simple answer, the original poster has NEVER been taught or learnt simple manners!

Best just ignored.....as adults simply cannot understand that they are un-appealing in any way shape or form......

I bet he is single!!! I wonder why...............!

Now for some topical feedback...and since the previous answers have satisfied...maybe a chance to explore deeper aspects of the issue.

healybj8 #2 said: Typically...$10 to $20 for a catalytic converter. ...depends on...size...type. ....can go as high as $100. (Score for Good Answer)

Guest Jim Nickerson #4 said: ...quick answer...value of recyclables has gone through the roof. ...in...recycling business...20 years...never seen anything like it. ...is a supply and demand issue. When prices are high people will come out of the wood work. [They want to] Get it while you [they] can. (Score for Good Answer)

aurizon #6 said: catalyic converters...being cut out of parked cars.... ...platinum recovered can be worth $50, but...[sold mainly]....to repair shops...replace stolen converters because [OEMs] sell for $1000...are all different and...car [model specific]...no cheap made in China replacements...found. So they [cutter outers] steal... and sell [to]...body shops [?! body shops?] for $200+ or so, who sell them [back] to people for a lot more. (Good Answer Score)

All of the above, very responsive comments closely parallel my recent experiences—and one not so recent—with the issue. Jim's reply is auspicious coming as it does from an insider of the recycling business.

Healybj8's citing of $10 – 20 (typical) is reflective of the most recent offer I received—it also seemed the most genuine, i.e., not seeking to find and exploit a possible knowledge gap—which, after looking under the car, was for $20. The problem then, as I told the fellow, was my preference to dispose of the entire car, not just one, easy money part of the car; I was hesitant to "get caught" holding a car which might prove harder to get rid of; or to be confronted with having to "part out" and then worry about or pay for processing (removing hazardous material from) and then transporting the carcass to the crusher.

Healy's high salvage value of $100, together with Aurizon's mention of (presumably OEM) values of $1000, raises a separate issue respecting CAT values, something I didn't think about until after posting my original question. Rightly or wrongly, I've been given to understand that expended CATs have no "core" (no remanufacture) value, per se, but (mostly) only catalyst (metal) recovery value. Apart from things like possible stainless steel plating or fabrication, it is hard to explain the dramatic price difference between OEMs and the much cheaper, after market CATs, other than in terms of their respective times to failure—whereas OEM's are built to last 7-10 years or more, presumably to meet the (US) regulatory 5/50 emissions systems warranty, new aftermarket CATs, at $200 – 300 or less, even with only a 2-5 year life expectancy (1 year [oftentimes meaningless] warranty) are almost invariably the better CAT replacement value. The price differential, then, would seem to indicate that an OEM CAT derives its superior durability because of a substantially greater amount of precious metal in its catalyst bed.

On the other hand, it might also seem that aftermarket CATs should cost more (at wholesale) than OEMs due to the additional, metal recovery phase of the catalyst refinement process?

I welcome any thoughts that you (or interested CR4 metallurgists) might add to shed light on this seeming paradox?

Then there's also the chance that exorbitant OEM CAT prices can be explained in terms of the same market dynamics that affects all car parts: the mark up must factor in all real and perceived "discounts" at the time of new vehicle purchase.

The catalytic converter and oxygen sensors in automobiles contain Platinum, Paladium, and Platinum goes for about 1500 USD an ounce so it's worth more than gold. I've seen single catalytic converters sell for up to $60 on Ebay and I've heard of people stealing them from parked cars .

Laserlover,

It's most interesting...the part about people selling them on the auction site. Those sales would have to be by an ebay merchant who could provide a warranty (which, at $60, is very doubtful) or (more likely) as up-for-bid items by persons who had, themselves, stolen the CATs from a "reliable" source such as a parts vendor or auto service facility. It is otherwise hard to see how anyone would purchase a mail order CAT without knowing whether or not it was brand new, or whether or not it was not partially or fully depleted....but, yes, some people are easily fooled. Your answer is also very helpful in that it gives me some idea about how much "discount" has been figured into the "offers" I have been receiving from "CAT scavengers."

I will check ebay for more information about "independent" CAT sales offers.

Again thanks. And here's a "good answer" for you.

catalytic converters erode with time and lose mass. While this exposes fresh catalytic surface to replace that lost to any sulphur in the fuel, it eventually cause brweakage of the matrix and it is expelled.

They have a standard weight when new and should be weighed if used to estimate the amount of matrix left. Dealers have this data.

So an old used one might not have very mucy precious left.

So any buyer must buy cheap in case it is not worth much

Thanks Aurizon, your post provides a very informative, "missing piece" of the puzzle. I was not aware of catalyst metals being expelled through the tail pipe...if that's what you meant by erosion and by matrix failure. Unlike some places, in this state (California) with its stringent fuel formulation restrictions, I am not so sure that sulfur (deposition?) would be a significant problem...although it could well be present in some amount just about anywhere. When you say "catalyst surface lost to sulfur" I would assume you mean catalyst exposure loss to sulfur deposition overlay (something like varnish or sludge clogging)...since (as far as I am aware) the catalyst does not combine chemically. Is that also what you meant?

That part about weighing the CAT was also very interesting. By "dealer" did you mean automobile dealer? As respects OEM CATs? Or specific CAT brand dealers (including OEM suppliers)? That part had me a little confused (as to what specs for what CATs a dealer would have information about)...but I guess it would be safe to assume that these weight statistics are not easily available, if at all, to the general public?

On a different note, apart from deposition or other sulfur related degradation, I've been given to understand—this during an intensive "episode," lasting several months, to get my car's biennial smog certification in Calif.—that the biggest enemy of CATs is heat...specifically combustion overtemp caused by too lean fuel mixture (which leads to high NOX emission detected at the tail pipe). The most likely cause of this typically being, either or both of, clogged or stuck EGR circuit and/or faulty EGO—a primary EGO function, in that sense, being to protect the CAT (by sensing O₂ and consequently...regulating fuel mixture and combustion-temp-cooling EG recycling). What I was most surprised to learn was how truly effective a CAT is (and is expected to be) at catalyzing pollutants--especially hydrocarbons (unburned fuel). In fact, the standard test of the CAT calls for virtually pure, unburned gasoline to be "dumped" into the CAT (this is done by removing spark from one or more cylinders), during which tail pipe emission must measure at "passing" levels. But then, you probably know all that...so I'll stifle myself for now. Oh, but one thing.... That months-long smog test episode I mentioned? As it turned out, after spending "vast" sums to get the shop to fix the problem, it turned out to be me who eventually solved the problem! I kept asking and the repair shop kept answering that my EGO showed no sign of malfunction. I tried to convince them that it made little sense not to change it anyway; but because they had been able to tweak out a "bare pass" tail pipe emissions result, they declined to do it even though I was more than willing to pay (for what would have been the only EGO replacement in a 19 year old vehicle). I left that shop pretty well knowing that the vehicle would not pass (again) at the state approved test facility...and, sure enough, it did not. So, before the next test, I did nothing but replace the EGO sensor. Next time through (and the time after that) the emissions system passed with flying colors! It had been what's called a "sluggish" O₂ sensor all along; so the lesson learned was, when in doubt, change that sensor...they're expensive but not that expensive, especially when it's DYI.

Don't know bout converters but scrap steel is about $220 a ton and 360 for clean cast. depending on the age and size of the car it can be anywhere from 300 to 500 for a junk car .