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Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/12/2008 6:00 PM

About 29 years ago we put in a fence that looks like it needs some major work but I hope that it doesn't require new posts. When we built the original fence we set the posts with a product called Post Set.

For a 4x4 post one drills a 6 inch diameter hole, I had all of the holes drilled by a company that had a huge drill press on wheels that did it for about $1.50 in 1979 Canadian dollars per hole. My wife ordered half a cubic yard of 3/4 inch gravel. This gravel was a critical part of the process.

One would set the post in the hole and pack around the sides with the 3/4 inch gravel until it was vertical. Using the 6 inch hole made for a close fit with the 4x4 post. Then one would open the Post Set kit which consisted of two cans of chemicals, 20 plastic bags and 40 plastic cups. The correct amount of the two chemicals were measured into the plastic cups and then poured into the plastic bag and the contents of bag was kneaded by hand until it started to feel warm. At that point the contents of the bag was poured into the gravel around the post. It proceeded to foam around the gravel and between the walls of the hole and the sides of the post. Within minutes the post was as firmly in place as if concrete had been used which would have required a bigger hole, a lot more work, and the cost would have been the same. It made the job of building a fence much easier than it could have been.

I have since looked for the product at building supply stores and on the internet but the only product that I could find that came even close was designed for setting power poles which was obviously to large for home use. A Post Set kit containing enough to set 20 fence posts came in a package about 1 foot high, 8 inches wide, and 6 inches deep and cost $40 Canadian back in 1979.

I should note that of the 30+ posts we put in that day, there were 3 of us, all sedentary office worker types, we only wasted 2 batches of the material by kneading it too long and it expanded in the plastic bag and couldn't be poured to flow among the gravel. This was within the first 5 or 6 posts as we were learning when the critical point in the warming occurred. We were able to set all of the posts, install the top and bottom rails, and put in about half of the boards in the long section in one day which we never could have done using without the Post Set.


There was a 138 foot stretch of fence with a gate and an inset for garbage containers, a ten foot section on one side of the house and a 12 foot section on the other side with a gate

Has anyone in the widely experienced and knowledgeable group seen such a product on the market lately and if so where?


Thanx one and all.

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#1

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/13/2008 3:51 AM

Sorry, can't help...but I liked your post <groan> and it sounds like a good product.
They sell bags of quick setting concrete as 'post setting concrete' over here.
What were your actual posts made of ?
I have a fence which need some repair...last time I did it I used treated softwood straight ito holes packed with rammed earth... some have rotted at ground level. (I wanted oak posts but couldn't afford it at the time)
Del

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/13/2008 12:44 PM

I used pressure treated wood which was probably some form of pine or fir.


We have the quick set concrete available in bags, just add water and stir but it requires a bigger hole and a lot more work.

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#2

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/13/2008 7:23 AM

Hello The_curious_one

The product description sounds like Polystyrene foam, made up on the job.

Kind Regards....

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/13/2008 12:49 PM

You sound like you know of what you speak. How difficult would it be to assemble something like the kits that used to be available? I would assume that acquiring the required chemicals in small quantities might be a problem. The kit contained a one litre container of each of the two chemicals.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/13/2008 6:25 PM

Hello again The_curious_one

You could try http://www.absealantsltd.com/expandin.htm

or closer to your location: http://www.arkema-inc.com/index.cfm

Kind Regards....

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#6

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 5:01 AM

I think the Foam reported elsewhere was probably POLYURETHANE, rather than POLYSTYRENE. It can be had in quick-cure formulations which would set hard enough to locate a post securely within a couple of minutes - thus saving you the cost of the gravel perhaps, since it's cured compressive strength is quite high.

It is used by Highway contractors in the UK to secure crash containment posts into the concreted central reservations of dual carriageway roads. Maybe that hint might lead you to a source in Canada?

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#7

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 7:15 AM

I suggest you call WEBAC Corp. 1-877-932-2293 www.webac.com, and discuss your application with their engineer. I used their polyurethane foam to waterproof a basement. It works as you described except I injected it into the leak with a grease gun

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#8

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 8:00 AM

try www.fivestar.com They do this kind of thing, though a bit more high tech

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#15
In reply to #8

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 7:19 PM

Please check that URL, it led me to a site for special Chrysler product dealers.

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/16/2008 7:02 PM

Sorry. Shooting from the hip ! the address is www.fivestarproducts.com I hope that works better.

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#9

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 8:51 AM

Use cedar posts. They will out last several holes.

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#14
In reply to #9

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 6:36 PM

In the Northeast, I have found that Black Locust posts outlast all other wood. They are readily available, but more expensive.

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#10

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 9:55 AM

You might try this:

http://www.mountaingrout.com/mgsoilstab.htm

This is a single component polymer based soil stabilizer that will do the same thing that the chemical grout you mentioned in your post (no pun intended) does. It is intended to strengthen the soil matrix which is really what you are trying to do. You could pour or inject it into the gravel matrix of your post foundation. You could also use the two-component urethane leak sealing grout that that same company makes, pour it into the gravel and let it fill the spaces. You might find it more expensive than the concrete tho, or just driving the posts and replacing them as they rot and tapping them down as the frost heaves them. There are other companies than the one I mentioned that make this product. I just mentioned one that I have had experience with. Strata Thane and Avanti also make urethane products, use Google to find them. Good luck

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#11

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 2:22 PM

they make a expanding cement just for that try harware stores online or just look for expanding cement

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#12

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 6:06 PM

...the only product that I could find that came even close was designed for setting power poles which was obviously to large for home use. ...

Funny...your description sounded just like setting phone/power poles until you got to the part about mixing the...warm sticky stuff. Do you still have info about the product for setting power poles? It might be useful to me since I will be needing to set two "power" poles on our parcel....please!

It wasn't completely clear what you want to do (what the 29-year's damage is), and I only scanned the other answers...but it seems like you want to not pull the posts but, instead, re-plumb them in place, (possibly re-tamp), and add more or remove & replace the...goop at grade level. Is this right? I'm not sure yet what to suggest, but perhaps others would know with a bit more detailed description of the problem. Also, is it correct to assume this is a rail fence? That might have some bearing on the approach needing to be taken.

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#17
In reply to #12

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/16/2008 1:07 AM

In case I have to replace any posts I would like to use something like the Post Set product. I would prefer not to have to replace any posts.

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#13

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/14/2008 6:16 PM

Hello again, The_curious_one

My apologies, the foam as meant in my earlier post above was polyurethane, as others have mentioned since.

Kind Regards....

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#16

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/15/2008 8:04 PM

I used to supervise a company that set power utility poles.We rarely used anything except extreme tamping of the soil around the pole base.When properly tamped, all of the dirt that came from the hole will go back in, and you will probably have to add some.Think about what is happening when you pour concrete around a post:You are binding the post to undisturbed soil around the post, and adding a little weight to the bottom of the post.If you properly tamp the soil around the post, you will get the same effect, unless the soil is very wet and boggy, or very loose sand.

A large diameter(1-1/2 inch or more), about 6 feet long, steel tamping bar will suffice, around 10 pounds or so.This will give your arms a workout, so you may want to skip the gym for a day or so if you are not used to this type work.

A side note: Your posts are still good after 29 years? Perhaps the post-set foam kept the moisture from the soil from penetrating the posts, as a side benefit?

Utility poles don't usually last that long.

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#19

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/18/2008 1:36 PM

Hello, You can try this site http://www.anchorit.info/ they have something similar to what you are speaking of although it may take a bigger hole to begin with.

pipewelder

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#20

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

04/21/2008 9:50 PM

To fix a broken windsurfer, I used 2-part foam purchased at a marine (boat) store. The stuff went off like Vesuvius, so be quick. It's commonly used to make flotation compartments in boats. (and windsurfers)

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#21

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

06/12/2008 1:36 PM

Check out www.mine-seal.com on the web. Our company has sold our packaged PUF-Seal product for earthen cavity closures and other uses such as to elevate a patio slab that washed out. While I've always thought it was good for fence posts, I've never sold it for that purposes. However, I heard recently that the local power company used expanding foam to set their power poles inside excavated holes. Don't know the details, but will find out.

jacare

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#22

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

07/09/2008 3:21 AM

Quick-rok is a great product that can be mixed very thin and put around the edges of the post, letting it seep in. I get the production from http://www.productionfenceworks.com

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Looking for expanded foam product for fence posts

09/29/2011 6:16 PM

I just finished a fence job using GRA Services product known as Secure Set. 2 part foam. It is a pretty neat product, but it has some major flaws in it. 1. If there is any moister content to to soil AT ALL, it cures with a soggy/mushy constancy and becomes worthless. I ended up using quick set concrete on half of the job. 2. If you don't get a large enough area of the post underground 2 ft plus and have a perfectly cut hole at the surface, it does not give sufficient support to post. I did not see any time savings on the labor side once all the cleaning containers, mixing, pouring and waiting was done. I also had issues with pressure from foam moving my braces. I will not recommend a foam concrete substitute to anyone and will stick to a quick set type crete for speed and reliability.

IF you can't tell I am a little annoyed and feel like I was scammed on this product

It was 250 dollars and cost a lot more when it failed in the field.

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