Previous in Forum: generators...   Next in Forum: Paralleling Power cables calculations
Close
Close
Close
6 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1

DC input to VFD for EV

04/24/2008 8:47 AM

Hello,

I am no electrical engineer, but migrate more toward the mechanical side of things with a very limited knowledge of electrical and electronics.That being said I have a question I'd like to ask everyone if I could.

I'm seeking information on whether a VFD can be either directly used or modified to allow DC input from a lead acid battery bank to drive a 3 phase motor in an electric vehicle conversion application.

I 've heard a VFD actually converts the AC input to DC, then back to AC, so how can DC be used as the initial input? What I'm looking at is a way to cut some of the cost of making a EV conversion by using standard VFDs and some of the 3 phase motors which are fairly cheap floating around.

Any thoughts or comments greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Steve

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 588
Good Answers: 13
#1

Re: DC input to VFD for EV

04/24/2008 8:55 AM

To go from DC to AC , the unit is called an inverter. You can get them most anywhere.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#2

Re: DC input to VFD for EV

04/24/2008 9:11 AM

Why not stick with a dc motor?

Its more efficient and can be controlled probably just as easy...

John.

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#3

Re: DC input to VFD for EV

04/24/2008 11:08 AM

I think you are right, but a typical controller for an EV does all sorts of things above and beyond a simple VFD.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 729
Good Answers: 2
#4

Re: DC input to VFD for EV

04/24/2008 11:20 AM

For traction DC motor is most suitable and there are motors designed to operate from batteries.If u still want to got through the route of VFD and AC motor it can be done but may not be economical and suitability of standard three phase motor is a big question mark even though ac motors are used in traction now a days but not thje one's u are talking about.They are specially designed.

__________________
To avoid crticism do nothing,say nothing,be nothing
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#5

Re: DC input to VFD for EV

04/24/2008 1:54 PM

As others have said, it is not the best use of technology, but if you are wanting to use off-the-shelf industrial components then there is no reason it will not technically work. I know of several people who have done this for experimental or "proof of concept" purposes. ABB did it on an electric race car, there was a link in this site to it somewhere.

I know one guy who did it just for fun on his garden tractor because his neighbors had an injunction issued against him for mowing his lawn too early on Saturday mornings. So he converted it to electric power like this and mowed silently real early. That way they never saw or heard him, they just noticed that his lawn was mowed. He did it just to mess with their minds.

Any VFD is technically capable of having DC connected directly to it and bypassing the rectifier section. Some make it easier than others by actually providing terminals for this, some do not, so on those you would need to disassemble them and probably solder to the DC bus. Not advisable unless you got the VFD for free.

Then you will also need a means of dissipating any regenerative energy that comes back from the motors when coasting or stopping. Some of it can be pumped back into the batteries via their charging circuit, but a standard VFD will not have that so you need that as well. The rest must be pumped into braking resistors, sized for the duty cycle and energy capacity you need for effective electric driving. The circuitry and intelligence to do that correctly can be daunting.

Then you have to deal with the power-to-weight aspect of off-the-shelf industrial AC motors. You will end up consuming a lot more energy just having the motor haul itself around than if you used a specifically designed EV motor.

Lastly you have to deal with the voltage. Off-the-shelf industrial AC 3 phase motors are not going to come with any less than 208V windings, 230V if you are wanting to use IEC motors. This means that at a minimum, you will need to have 300VDC available (325VDC for IEC). Assuming 12VDC cells, that is 25 to 27 batteries in series, better to go higher to allow for some voltage drop for range, so figure 35 minimum. Then you start with whatever parallel configuration you will need to attain the amp-hours to get the HP and range you want to have available. Lots more weight to haul around. You start running up against the laws of diminishing returns very quickly. Li-ion battery systems are better in that aspect, but if you don't know what you are doing with the charging circuit, steer clear of that (pun intended).

Other than that, have fun experimenting!

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#6

Re: DC input to VFD for EV

04/27/2008 3:45 PM

For small EV applications VFD's are a good idea now days. Many have direct DC to 3ph AC conversion, with many motor control features (even on the basic models) and are fairly inexpensive and easy to implement and use without the need for modification. By small EV I mean very light car or smaller.

AC Tech and ABB do a nice range.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 6 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Hero (1); Electroman (1); jack of all trades (1); JRaef (1); nesubra (1); vicini (1)

Previous in Forum: generators...   Next in Forum: Paralleling Power cables calculations

Advertisement