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Opposite Directions

04/29/2008 2:13 PM

Assuming no gravity and no atmosphere, is it generally accepted that a projectile ( excluding anything less massive than, say a B-B) launched in the opposite direction from and at the same velocity as its "launcher" will appear to stand still to an observer "standing still" at the point of exit from said launcher?

I know this to be true of a bowling ball out the back of a semi because after a few frames and beers we tried it.

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#1

Re: Opposite Directions

04/29/2008 2:50 PM

It sounds like the 'launcher' is already moving, then?

If that's what you're saying and the launcher is moving +X m/s with respect to the ground and the launcher fires a projectile -X m/s with respect to the launcher, then yes, with respect to the ground, the projectile will appear to not move at all.

The velocity of the projectile with respect to ground is equal to the velocity of the projectile with respect to the launcher plus the velocity of the launcher with respect to ground. +X + -X = 0.

Is that what you're talking about?

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#8
In reply to #1

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 11:12 AM

Thank you,herzoa. Mostly I was trying to provoke more stories from folks who actually tried this. My comment about the bowling ball and semi truck is true. The ball came out the back of the trailer and simply fell to the ground.(much to the consternation of the ball and my friend's big toe)

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#2

Re: Opposite Directions

04/29/2008 6:24 PM

And you still outscored Senator Obama.

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#3

Re: Opposite Directions

04/29/2008 11:11 PM

Qman,

You and your mates have already completed empirical testing that can not be challenged so your answer is "YES". I look forward to your next brain teaser.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Opposite Directions

04/29/2008 11:51 PM

I with you Mike.

Who can argue with empirical testing, especially if he has a spare bowling ball up his sleave.

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#16
In reply to #3

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 4:13 PM

Mike,

Do you have anything to do with a company that starts with the letter "T"? If so, you and I have a close relationship ( metal-wise).

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#5

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 2:58 AM

Yes

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#6

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 4:26 AM

(excluding anything less massive than, say a B-B)

Why would that make a difference?

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#7

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 9:38 AM

If you're assuming no gravity and no atmosphere, why limit it to things larger than a BB? It will work for anything with non-zero mass, provided the speeds involved are sufficiently smaller than light-speed so that relativistic effects can be ignored. To account for relativistic effects, you have to apply the Lorentz transformations, which I'm too lazy to look up.

Of course, all of the above depends on your definition of "standing still," which you already know, or you wouldn't have put it in quotes.

(Hey, WAIT a minute! You're not even asking a question! This was just a trick to tell everybody about the time you got drunk and ruined a bowling ball. Wish I coulda seen that.)

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 11:14 AM

You got me!

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#10

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 12:02 PM

If I understand this correctly, I can stand in the back of a fast moving truck with the rear door open. I can then fire my rifle at the pursuing police car, and the bullets will just fall to the ground and not hit the police car?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 12:13 PM

Well if the police car is pursuing... then the car will run into the bullets! Talk about a unique defense case!

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 1:02 PM

NO NO !...

The bullets will be stationary, but the police car will drive into them before they hit the ground!!!

Del

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 1:16 PM

Wow, bob c. Does your truck go that fast?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 1:22 PM

No not really, It's only half fast. You asked for that. Sorry.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Opposite Directions

04/30/2008 3:26 PM

The heck with the bullet. Roll the bowling ball!

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#17

Re: Opposite Directions

05/01/2008 1:28 AM

This is true because the projectile in the launcher is already traveling at that speed forward, so when fired backwards, the projectile is actually slowed to a stop (with every thing perfect) - The Energy of the Projectile moving forward is transfered to the launcher and thus to the platform. The Projectile will then stop and the launcher would increase in speed based on the mass ratios.

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#18

Re: Opposite Directions

05/01/2008 10:56 AM

What about the dynamics of a real projectile fired from a a barrel of a firearm?

Even if the displacement is effectively nil from the respective axis, would there not be some rotation on a projectile most times?

So rather than standing still, would it not spin around like a planet does?

Just some thoughts to go with my tea this morning!

=)

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Opposite Directions

05/01/2008 11:06 AM

Yup, even an arrow rotates...but who ever heard of someone getting screwed to death?

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: Opposite Directions

05/01/2008 4:24 PM

but who ever heard of someone getting screwed to death?

I have one word to respond to that: TAXES!

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Opposite Directions

05/03/2008 2:59 PM

No not quite, they don't stop when you die, they tax what you leave behind, and when it is spent, and, and ,and .....

Who ever said perpetual motion was impossible must not have been under the IRS. I once did a contract with a government agency (County) to assist Veterans with their claims. The County said that for every $100 in benefits received would result in $357.29 in tax revenue as it is spent and re-spent before if filters out of the county.

Wonder what that equates to the IRS before it filters out of the Country?

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: Opposite Directions

05/03/2008 2:45 PM

Launcher and Projectile types not provided could be a catapult or some nut throwing bolwing balls out the back of a truck?

I few times, mostly old farts who marry young one's LOL - but if you got to go, sounds like the way I want to do it, but would like to experiment with a lot of near death experiences first!

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: Opposite Directions

05/01/2008 11:55 AM

I guess that would depend on the Launcher - if it was a rifled barrel there would be spin and would be at the same rate. With no Gravity and in a Vacuum, effectively leaving the projectile spinning like a top or gyro but stationary.

We could spin the launcher in the oposit direction and speed, but that sounds like a lot of effort to have a net result of a stationary object floating in space.

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#20

Re: Opposite Directions

05/01/2008 11:49 AM

Before they were removed B-52's used to have tail gunners (Personal experience) and when we fired at air craft attacking from the rear we had the advatage of longer effective range. Although our rounds left the barrels at the speed of the shell rating, they were reduced effectively by the speed of the B-52 - The attacking aircrafts bullets were increased by the speed of their aircraft.

The air resistance quickly lowered the attacking rounds as the B-52 continued to move away and the attacking air craft moved to close on our rounds. The B-52 would move away - ever increasing the distance the attacting rounds had to travel. In opposition the Attacking air craft - ever decreasing the distance our rounds had to trave for the hit.

The net result was the B-52 rounds had a much greater effective range quite often able to take out the attacking air craft before it could get within range of the B-52. This was also true during WWII battles but the much higher speeds of the Jet aircraft had a much greater effect. At times I could see the rounds aproaching and could see them drop away before impacting while my rounds sliced the attacking air craft apart.

This advantage was due to the air resistance - in a vacuum the effect would be opposite, my rounds would be slowed by the speed of the B-52 and the attackers rounds would be increased by the speed of their craft.

In a Vaccum with perfect conditions and no gravity - if two air craft fired exactly the same rounds at the same muzzel velocity at the same exact time as they both moved in the same direction at the same speed - both aircraft would be struck at the same time with effectively the same velocity at impact.

to put some numbers (non realistic to keep math simple) if both air craft were traveling at 1000 FPS in the same direction at 2000 feet apart and both guns fired at 2000 FPS the lead aircrafts rounds would be leaving the barrle at 2000 FPS but that barrel was traveling in the opposite direction at 1000 FPS so the projectiles actual speed will be 1000 FPS backwards. The attacking air craft would fire in the same direction having an actual projectile speed of 3000 FPS. The Projectile traveling backwards at 1000 FPS and the rear air craft traveling at 1000 FPS forward the range of 2000 Feet would close in 1 Second and the impact would be 2000 FPS (1000 from the projectile + 1000 from the aircraft) the attacking projecttile at 3000 FPS would hit the lead aricraft in 1 Second also and effectively at 2000 FPS impact velocity. (3000 FPS - 1000 FPS)

I am very thankful for air resistance

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