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Anonymous Poster

Cooling Machine

07/19/2006 8:31 AM

Anonymous Coward Glenn writes:
If a "microwave" can make my food hot, then why not a "macrowave" to cool them? Sort of the micro excites, and the macro relaxes? Just one of those burning questions around the kitchen table sweating it out...seems simple...

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#1

Macro-non-wave

07/19/2006 4:26 PM

It's already been invented, and it's liquid nitrogen in a Dewar vessel. Cools rather quickly!

A more practical combination of water ice and rock salt cools beer in about 7 minutes compared to about 20 minutes for plain ice, but be careful! Too much salt will cause the ice to melt so rapidly that it will freeze the beer, and you'll wind up in pretty much the same boat you started -- no drinkable cold beer. I know, 'cause I've frozen beer that way before.

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#2

Micro for hot as macro for cold?

07/19/2006 11:35 PM

Obviously, it is not a kind of IQ test problem nor the wave nature. Lets look more closer to the heating process using microwave.

Microwave is a kind of electro magnetic (EM) wave wich reside between infra red and short wave (SW) in the EM spectrum. Its wave length somehow match the size of water molecule letting its wave energy transfered to the water molecule as heat energy. The more a wet food exposured to the wave, the more heat build up letting every water molecules become energetic more and more. Every other molecules being boiled with the hot water nearby.

The longer the wave length seems make no sense to water molecules and others, nor taking their energy to make them cooler. So, if "macrowave" refer to wave with longer wave length than microwave has, then nothing to do with the "macrowave" for cooling your food.

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#3

one way world

07/20/2006 1:00 AM

Unfortunately, we live in a world where it is relatively easy to turn just about any form of energy into heat. Going the other way, turning heat into energy is more difficult. Entropy is apparently the dominant trend. We don't really "make" anything cold. We just move the heat from one place to another. This also, big surprise, involves generating a certain amount of additional heat as a byproduct. Certain things in this reality we occupy just prefer to go one way. It's just easier to slide down hill.

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#4

Tal vez muy complejo

07/20/2006 1:51 AM

Disculpen por no haber podido escribirlo en inglés, pero realmente me interesó este tema, así que me gustaría comentar que sería conveniente recordar que como la energía no se puede destruir, sólo transformarla, entonces tendríamos que pensar primero en que el calor o energía de los alimentos que se deseen enfriar se tendría que sacar o transformar de alguna manera. De esta forma es como podríamos primero atacar la idea desde ese principio básico... ¿Cómo extraer esa energía de los alimentos? y de la misma manera de cualquier otro elemento existente... Creo yo que no va a ser nada sencillo, ojalá y se tratara de sólo un paradigma, o si no, de una llave que cambie al mundo entero...

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#5
In reply to #4

Re:Tal vez muy complejo

07/20/2006 8:21 AM

Repiten en engleis, por favor. Hablo solamente poquito espanol. (I'm not too sure on my spanish grammar here.) Doesn't laser cooling work on the principle of destructive interference with the molecular motion of the molecule?

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David A Goodman
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#6
In reply to #5

Perhaps it could be kind of complex

07/20/2006 12:56 PM

I just tried to say that the idea is excelent!, I mean... Inventing a machine which extracts the energy from any kind of materia could be used for anything else... I mean, for example, the refrigerator system is good but not so eficient. And what about the engines of comercial cars? They could be more eficient if we could use more percent of the heat that they transform. So DAG, Do you have more information about "laser cooling"? I think it must be interesting. P.D. Did you mean: "¿No el enfriamiento laser trabaja con el principio de la interferencia destructiva del movimiento de las moléculas?" ?). I don't care reading english, but I think that my english redaction is not good, that's why I wrote my message in spanish.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re:Perhaps it could be kind of complex

07/20/2006 4:02 PM

Si. I would really like to better learn Spanish! I'm not very familiar with laser cooling, but I have encontered it a little in discussion in graduate physics classes. It seems to be something done quite regularly to bring very objects down to near zero on the atomic level. I'm sure it involves some crazy quantum physics. If there was some way to do this on a large scale it seems like it might work. I'm now just speculating. Perhaps I should do a little research and report my results!

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#8
In reply to #7

Re:Perhaps it could be kind of complex

07/21/2006 7:37 AM

Laser "cooling" reduces the temperature of a group of atoms by using the lasers for either 1) kicking out the warmer atoms in a cloud, lowering the average temperature of those left behind, or 2) using an array of lasers to define a volume, and tuning the lasers so that "fast" (i.e. hot) atoms are slowed down within he volume of interest.

You still need to start with atoms near or below 1 Kelvin, it's done in a VERY high vacuum, and the thermal efficiency is phenomenally low.

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Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #8

Re:Perhaps it could be kind of complex

08/01/2006 7:10 PM

Lasers are notoriously inefficient as well...

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Anonymous Poster
#10
In reply to #9

Re:Perhaps it could be kind of complex

08/06/2006 9:38 PM

I remember seeing a article about a superconducting super refridgerator. Cool to incredibly low temps. It kind of just sucked the kinetic energy out of objects.

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