Uninterupted Power Supply(UPS) System

Consult the manufacturers of the UPS or the technical manuals.

John.

APC...APC...APC...APC...APC...etc..

Yup.

Not necessarily. You've evidently bought into the marketing hype.

Yup and the service/support experienced (:

please narrow your question. Do you have a specific problem or are you "just shopping"...just trying to understand sales literature and such?

Ahhh, very simple to answer.

1/. none; plug it in and leave, have the monitoring program look after it, if there is a problem, the monitoring program should alert you of it. (usually connected to the computer with a special cable connected to your RS-232 connector on the back ... or USB)

Note:- its not a standard RS-232 cable, the wiring is usually different.

2/. Possible faults, not plugged in, not turned on, not monitored, internal fault, user fault.

2a/. findings... UPS isn't powering up the load for the intended time, UPS too small for the job, or power outages too close together for the thing to recharge, user has opened the case to "self diagnose problem" then complains why they lost the warranty (warranty void if opened?) UPS stored in a non-ventilated area, remember, batteries need to vent/gas no matter what the manufacturer said.

and lastly, did you RTFM ?

It could be that that answer, while adroit, kinda begs the question. Seems here that OPer could be trying to get up to speed about UPS in order to help himself—possibly—choose one to buy; or wonders if a UPS is even necessary or worth the cost for his equipment; or has bought one and wants to understand how to go about setting it up.

If the last (let's suppose), perhaps he might be content to simply plug his devise(s) into the UPS and let it(hem) run (without the comm connection) as most people probably do--in which case he would want to be aware that the power-interfaced devise(s), especially a computer with open programs, might be best not left unattended, so that manual shut down can be done.

Or it might be that he wants to install the comm line and GUI software, but is uncertain just how—or how to decide the parameter settings he should use if not just accepting the factory (default) settings.

Then again, he might be curious about fault indicators, whether in the form of LED outputs or on-screen alerts on his monitor.

Or his situation might pertain to using UPS or UPSes in a network setup?

Or he might be in a quandary as to why many, if not most UPSes sold do not provide regulation of current on more that a few UPS outlets, even though the advertising or packaging makes a big deal out of total number of outlets—so his question might be how to make the selection between regulated (or backed-up) outlets and plain old, pass-through outlets.

And the list goes on...which is why I said previously that it would be helpful for him to try to narrow his question; and which is why seller support can also sometimes fall short.

Unfortunately or fortunately, OPer's question might do little more than lead him to the realization that it's going to require some effort to learn about UPS; effort that goes beyond hoping for a full course by simply asking a single, indefinite question in CR4. If he wants specific answers, he's going to need to reveal his particular problems or misunderstandings; or so it would seem.

—UG

Which goes on to the last line of my last post "RTFM"

we can assume anything, you can also go on to assume that as the UPS is supplying power, and the IEC socket is the same style for 110 AND 240, that it would work on both.

The problem is, assumptions can lead people to the wrong conclusion. so..

DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING.

If the poster said they "Didn't know anything about a UPS, and wants it to do this...." then you have something to go off.

Or you could assume that they have 1 and are trying to fix it, then you'd be telling them to unplug from wall, remove and check the batteries (outside the unit, for those that you can disconnect)

Or you can assume they know what they are doing, and the next response from poster is that they almost killed them self as they didn't really know what they were doing.

Thanks, Snaketails,

It pleases me to see that we don't disagree on any point. It's as if the questioner has gone fishing for what he does not know, so has left his hook unbaited....as if hoping to catch everything.

There must be is a reason, though, why FMs are so often called F'ing Ms, most likely because, either, they are too often written by those who do not fully understand their product, or by those unable to comprehend what user need to know in order to use their product. That being the case, RTFM (or should that be RaFM) is still not bad advice....when it means: Get actual or virtual hold of a good UPS's manual; read it; then ask a question or series of questions (posted individually) about anything in the manual that is not understood; not understandable; or not covered.

GA

Snaketails and Guest,

I agree with you both but in this case I believe

Electroman gave a good steer right out of the gate and the questioner hasn't looked back.

I say it cause I came from a background of electronics and some programming, where the manuals were written, and understandable, and in Linux, you just type 'man <subject>' and you get the manual page..

RTM's were used quite a bit until frustration came through and it was converted to RTFM or Read The F' Manual

Sometimes, if people cannot understand a well written manual, how can you explain it to them?

Sometimes you can't, unless and until someone asks you a specific question about t specific manual item...hence the recommendation to read first, then ask. In other words, try to know at least a little something about what you're (the proverbial you're) asking; not a question like, What does the manual say and what does that mean?

JOPENZ107,

1. Maintenance is minimal in general, the manufacturer will supply a schedule to change out batteries etc., that's about all; normally.

2. Again the manufacturer is your best resource initially; rule #1 you buy a UPS for protection, don't cheap out on yourself buy a reputable brand if you are unfamiliar. Check warranty information, know what support will be available; know before you go.

Hi Jopenz107,

UPS systems today are very user friendly. The only true concern is the batteries. Most ups's come with software that will give you basic information about the load and ups status. It is recommended the the ups be in an enviroment that is 70-75f and dry (moisture can cause corrision). The battery will require supervision; if the ups is a small 1ph box then they will use VRLA type batteries that require no maintenance, these batteries will have a life of 3-5 years with the user replacing the batteries once or twice over the 8-10 year life of the ups. If it is a large kva ups the batteries may be wet cell and require periodic maintenance. For the larger systems it is better just to buy into a preventive maintenance program for quailified personnel to do the actual maintenance. The larger systems batteries may vent gases that can become an explosion hazard if not properly vented and maintained.

The nature of the question certainly does not lead one to believe it's a large system, with flooded batteries, that is under consideration; if such were the case, the user would probably not want the battery or batteries collocated with the computer or other power consumer. More typically, even high-end UPS units will have sealed battery or batteries, which last 7 years and up before replacement is needed.

UPS seller

Your response is inaccurate sealed VRLA batteries have a life of 3-5 years under optimum conditions; if the temperarture get higher than 75f for each 10c above 20c(70f) the life of the batteries is cut in half also the more the ups goes to battery the shorter the life of the batteries. The wet cells have the life closer to 7 years - My company offers both.

Perhaps....but my UPSes contain a battery of three batteries--about 85 (+/-) pounds, assuming the battery comprises the bulk of UPS weight. The seven years was based on manufacturer representation (the manual) regarding nominal battery life before replacement--and it didn't appear to be puffery. Also, I do not keep UPS powered when not in use. Perhaps a different type of battery? Anyway, too much bother to find out before needing to replace. Have gone to battery backup just a few times over three years so far, the longest about 9 seconds but usually only momentary. GUI still indicating capacity plus. And fast recovery.

Oh there's one more thing that original poster should know: never hook up laser printer to UPS. Just thought I'd slip that in...even though it looks like he's not coming back.

Thanks for the info.

I was having trouble with printer/copier but UPS solved and everything is peachy, what you mean never use it?

What kind of trouble? what kind of UPS? Generally, UPS cannot meet the power requirements of a laser printer. Therefore they are not recommended by (printer and UPS) mfr's to be powered via UPS.

what kind of UPS? Generally, UPS cannot meet the power requirements of a laser printer.

Don't know for sure but power isn't a problem, generally 15-20 amps, probably APC.

Was corrupted power noise and stuff, sags and such.

Thanks. As they say, what works.... And with your utility power problem....

But I should have thought to also ask, if you're running only the laser printer off the UPS; seems that way from the way you initially stated it. I don't personally use a laser printer—too expensive for me for what is essentially a disposable (run-out-of- toner-and-replace) machine—so I don't have personal experience, good or bad, to explain why mfrs say don't use UPS for laser printers. My best guess would be, if computer and (working-hence drawing high current constantly) laser printer are both drawing off UPS, and a utility outage occurs, the laser printer will discharge the backup battery very rapidly, if not virtually instantaneously; thus jeopardizing the computer (and possibly the printer as well). Another factor might involve whether or not the laser printer was running off a regulated (not just surge protected) outlet on the UPS. (My UPSs have all regulated/protected/backed outlets, no pass throughs like most UPSs...) Perhaps some of your CR4 specialists (or your printer mfr) can give better explanation of why (and in what configuration) not to connect laser printer to UPS. But, like I said, if it's working for you and there's no other option....

The UPS is there to produce a pure sine wave while the printer is being operated. If the printer is not in use it is switched off. If a power outage occurs the printer will be switched off also.

Thanks, bwire. But, with all due respect, it is not clear to me how your comments shed light on what I wrote. Whether a sine-wave-out UPS or not (and very many, especially less expensive ones, probably are not), and whether the laser printer is power networked alone or with computer (etc) to UPS, the issue in question entailed the capacity of a UPS's battery to sustain an operating (and, relatively speaking, slow) laser printer to, either, the conclusion of its job in progress, or to a manageable interruption point in a job batch. My point was that (and this is irrespective of UPS output wave form): in that a laser printer in other than OFF, or standby mode (ON but not printing) condition draws non-intermittently high current, it is more likely than not that, in the event of utility power loss, the UPS's battery will be rapidly depleted (or, in the case of online UPS, depleted far more rapidly than UPS's ability to recharge &or battery's ability to be recharged)...probably before the print job in progress can be completed. In addition to loss of the print page in progress, one must also consider any other print jobs stored in printer's volatile memory, or cued in connected computer or networked computers...so it is easy to see how rapid UPS battery depletion (the same which would constitute a failure of the UPS) could wreak havoc—havoc which is compounded by each additional power consumer in a UPS's power network...all because of not isolating the laser printer (or network laser printer), both, from the power network as well as from the UPS's backup battery.

Whether or not, beyond said havoc, the failure of UPS output to a connected and working (or standby mode) laser printer portends any risk to hardware, that is not clear to this writer. However, it seems reasonable, given the extremely fine timing precision required of a laser printer, and given its comparatively high energy output, that the possibility of hardware damage cannot be dismissed. (Even with non-laser type printers, one often finds a manufacturer admonition that the printer must never by unplugged while working or while in standby...lest irreparable printer damage result.

If I have misapprehended the point behind your post (including the possibility it was intended not in response to mine but in response to the post before mine) please advise.

it is not clear to me how your comments shed light on what I wrote. Whether a sine-wave-out UPS or not (and very many, especially less expensive ones, probably are not), and whether the laser printer is power networked alone or with computer (etc) to UPS, the issue in question entailed the capacity of a UPS's battery to sustain an operating (and, relatively speaking, slow) laser printer to, either, the conclusion of its job in progress, or to a manageable interruption point in a job batch.

It's clear to me that you are unfamiliar with the capacities of UPS batteries available for these type situations. I can assure you a UPS system for the power requirements you have detailed are readily available.

You will find the following very interesting:

http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13

If, as it seem clear, your only point is to (somehow, some way) raise objections to issues which were never in question—at least not to the discerning reader--then, sorry, I haven't the time...

The points I made stand as valid, when they are valid, and not when they are not. It has nothing to do with your "judgment," as omniscient as that might be, of what I or anyone else understands.

A little more looking for consensus, and less looking for controversy and opportunities to "self-puff" would serve you well. Why don't you try it? Others on this board of similar ilk might be impressed, and decide to follow suit. Now that's real bragging rights, and not just pandering to some perceived mutual admiration clique.

Over and out.

I have answered your question complete in all aspects by giving a link so you can contact a verifiable authority of the subject in question.

It does me no personal applause to infer such information upon any such question. It was merely a gesture to give one direction to pursue the object of their desire.

Puff the magic dragon lives by the sea and frolics in the autumn mist in a land called Honalee...

I agree with you here bwire.

I don't know why the "Guest" is sying crap like printer queues and the like, if a print job is lost during a power outage, just resend the printout, generally your desktop computer if on UPS will get a warning that the print job didn't finish, or there was a error communicating with the printer.

If the printer had 50 jobs in the queue, and it went on to UPS power during an outage, the printer has no way of knowing that as the UPS batteries fail and the power levels drop, that it will loose power before the job is completed, this includes getting more printer jobs during the outage.

The discussion on this, as far as I can see is pointless, no matter how fast the laser sucks the UPS down, there is no comms to warn it.

bwire is being helpful as usual, then a "guest" comes along, cannot sign in with a real alias and starts canning a regular poster here.

And to the "Guest" poster of the last post, can you say all that again in English?

wet cell batteries are not always used in bigger installations, I installed a system that is floating on the North west Shelf (I think still) that contains 96 Sonnescein 1.2V batteries of about 96kgs each, these were recombination Gell type, I would hate the job of replacing those suckers, they were installed through the top before the NCC mast was welded in place.

From what I have heard, it has survived a few cyclones.