Power convertion

Hello vermin

What you need is some arrangement which can create energy out of absolutely no input watsoever.

Input: 120Volts @ 30 Amps - Single Phase = 3,600Watts

Output: 240Volts @ 40Amps - Three Phase = 28,800Watts

So you hope to get 8 times more energy out than you put in, assuming zero losses in your "Converter".

Your circuitry, if possible, would be worth $$$$$Mega-Trillions, and I would like to be your agent for Australia, New Zealand, and Oceania, at least.

But there is a major snag, assuming it were possible: Cheap clones by the Millions would race out of China, a week after the first one was sold.

Kind Regards....

The thing is, I can't believe some one actually bit!!!

But thanks for the answer anyway!!!

Actually, I was just thinking about that!

I have this really rockin' flash lamp unit that can put out 2000 W/s (2000 Joules) from 110V AC. It's very hand for turning smallish xenon tubes into sand! It does this by keeping a bank of batteries inside the unit charged to make up the difference.

I rated you number one.

sparkstation; your math is off 40 times 240 would equal 16608 watts 3 phase. perry

Hello again, vermin

I'm here to help you.

I cannot believe you actually asked the question, so it appears another has your Log-in ID

Kind Regards....

Excuse me why I munch my SPAM.

I asked the question knowing that it was friggin' impossible! I just wanted to see how many fish I caught...

OK. Here's a REAL question - I have a 220 socket for my clothes dryer. What is coming through that? 220V single phase?

"I have a 220 socket for my clothes dryer. What is coming through that? 220V single phase?"

110 V. - Neutral - 110 V. 3 wire single phase.

Stan,

Is that incorrect or unclear.

Should it not be, in a three wire circuit...

1, neutral - 2, 110 to neutral or ground, 3, 110 to neutral or ground with the 220 being obtained across 2 & 3.

In that circuit neutral would also be grounded but because that poses problems the code now imposes a 4 wire circuit, i.e.,
ground, neutral, 110, 110.

j.

Just a suggestion? first into a rectifier, then into a 3 phase inverter? not a hands on electrician as may notice.

Regards JD.

I've got some of the 240V stuff in my house, and I think the service head is good for about 60 Amps so I may have some spare. Do you have an extension lead ? Until my Lemon comes on-line it's the best I can offer, but every little helps.

Not sure what you are trying to do, but here's one way to accomplish what you asked for: Use a 120 VAC single phase motor to drive a 240 VAC three phase generator. Then connect enough capacitors or inductors to produce 40 amps of reactive power on each of the 3 legs of the 240 VAC. Not a free energy system and violates no laws of physics . . .

That's actually a very interesting answer - one point for you!

No Vermin. Not at all interesting unless you looking to sell such a system to some Rube.

Same problem. Energy out, of any system, cannot be more than energy in.

j.

Ignoring the power discrepency

you buy 1 of these

http://web2.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/AC_Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_Drive_Units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC)

if you really were pulling that much power at home better put PG&E and probably the fire department on speed dial!

Pardon me for being stupid but Sparky above gave you the math. Limited to an input of 3600 watts how the hell is your free energy system going to produce 3 times that.

Put another way, but how in hell are you going to triple one phase into three, albeit each rotated 120 degrees.

I'm sure if I sit here and think about it I'll think of other ways of posing the impossibility of tripling what you are given.

But then again perhaps I am stupid; Sparky as well?

j.

The original question did not ask for 3,600 watts in. In fact the original question didn't mention real power at all. Just because you have 120 VAC and 30 amps on a single phase circuit does not mean you have 3,600 watts. There's a little thing called power factor . . . look into it.

PEIT,

Last time I did the math 120 VAC times a circuit capable of delivering 30 amperes equals maximum wattage of 3600 no matter what else you want to consider.

You think you can get more show us. Of course there are factors that may actually cause less to be available.

Nonetheless, the rule is, not just in electrical circuitry, you doesn't get somthin' for nothin.'

Now, for those who may be less astute as to these matters there are occasionally folks hanging around who may wish to sell you something that purports to get you somthin' for nothin.'

Don't buy it. It is impossible. It is a scam.

Truth be to tell some of the people that post some of these things here are simply not knowledgeable, others are scammers. We not calling names here, we simply don't know who is who. All we know are those propositions that won't, on their face, fly.

j.

j.,

Well, if we have visitors to the Electrical Engineering forum that need a lesson in conservation of energy, then by all means, they need your protection. I think those people should stay out of the deep end and visit some other fourms (science fiction?).

I made the mistake of responding to what I thought was a legitiamate question (that made NO mention of "power" or "maximum wattage") only to find out the message was someone's idea of a joke.

I'm new to this forum, so will say no more and see if I can develop a similar sense of humor so maybe next time I can get a good laugh out of a bogus posting.

First let me welcome you to this wonderful place. This forum is more amusing than the Jerry Springer show. If you don't bring your sense of humor with you, you will miss a lot. I joined hoping to have some knowledge to add the group. That did not work out. But I have learned many things about every subject I have subscribed to. Different ideas. Different people. Different attitudes. BUT, the best collection of minds you are ever likely to find. Enjoy.

PEIT,

I have not yet figured out just what Vermin is although from his postings perhaps his name is appropriate.

Trouble is he seems to be knowledgeable but is also prone to posting jokes that don't look like jokes.

Perhaps he will explain or at least Stan or someone else who seem to know him.

j.

PEIT,

It wasn't really a bogus post, it was more of a post made out of frustration because here was this really great laser going for peanuts, but I had no way to power the damn thing!!!

The one actual real answer was given by the guy that suggested charging a big-ass bank of batteries over a period of time, and then taking the stored energy from there. That's a pretty cool idea! Although, I assume it would take something like a surplus submarine battery to pull it off.

Sorry if I lead you into contention with others on the thread. Most visitors to CR4 are usually more civil than what you ran into.

...and, no I'm not a troll (usually).

You can probably find some used forklift batteries. big companies replace when they will only hold about 1/2 the rated capacity [charge]

Vermin,

I don't understand. How big a laser, what specs power. Assuming you live in a city, unless its one of those lasers built to bring down satellites, I would think you could get enough power. Of course there is cost.

j.

this is a case of a simple phase converter( well not actually that simple).. either the rotary or stationary type. try googling as this has been around for as long as i can remember.. I had this one used by my electrician in the philippines..

I do this frequently to test my power converters. I draw full voltage (480V 3 Ph) at full current (160A) from a 50KVA transformer. The trick?

I run two identical converters one of them is almost pure leading current while the other one is almost pure lagging current. Both connected together cancel out except for the losses that are supplied by the 50KVA transformer. I actually need only 10-15 KVA for the losses and imperfect matching of the converters references.

First of all you must specify if 120V, 240V and 30A,40A are referred to peak or RMS values. If they are RMS values the input power is 3.6kW and the output power cannot exceed such value due to converter's losses. Regarding the converter you must rectifier (by a Graetz's bridge) the input source (AC/DC) obtaining a DC supply about 170V the you need a step-up converter (DC/DC) in order to rise the 170 input voltage up to 440V and the last you need a three phase full bridge inverter (DC/AC).

fig1-converter

Probably do you would drive a motor?

fig2- three phase full bridge inverter

I'm hoping to help you.

Claus

Madness below is correct. A magic wand would do nicely. Too bad that's a figment of his imagination as is that pretty drawing of yours. Because you can diagram a scheme does not accord it any more reality then it has as a drawing.

Where is the conceptual disconnect here? In the political world, or the economic world, or the argument about evolution, or god, I am quite used to the disconnect.

But what is it about the conservation of matter/energy that is not understood.

Is it just that some are so hungry that like actual hunger and dreaming of food, hunger for free energy dreams pretty, meaningless, drawings?

The rule that goes with the latter, contrary to popular wisdom in some quarters, is that just because you think it, it cannot be made real unless what you think comports with the material facts of reality.

Reality says you don't get somethin' for nothin'.

j.

No circuit at all... What might pull it off though is a druid, experienced wizard with a suitable wand of course or three witches with a cauldron and a few magic spells

You will need either a power plant or a negative-loss converter. In the second case you can apply for a Nobel prize and Dee Dee will love you...

I'm giving you a good answer for no other reason than you're the first person to use Dexter as an avatar, that ACTUALLY KNOWS about Dee Dee!!!

Vermin,

Now that I have gone back and looked at what set this off your problem is simple. The way you had posted it made you look like a free power freak. Now I understand you are simply talking about the outlets you have available.

There are a number of ways to get what you need providing you have access to an outlet that will let you pull 50 amps at 220 VAC. Such outlets can be an electric stove or oven connection, usually 50 to 60 amps available. At 50 amps you will have available 11,000 watts.

One way of converting is a circuit, I have seen in use to run printing presses, which using capacitors will take the two hot legs and shift the phase to create three phases. Should be able to find that on the web.

Another method, time honored and much simpler is a motor-generator set; 220 VAC single phase motor driving a three phase generator.

If you do not have access to a big enough outlet but have access to the main breaker panel it is simple enough to plug in a 60 amp breaker and connect to a new outlet to drive whichever rig you choose. These days most service connections are 150 to 200 amps. I know since I have installed a few of those here in Atlanta. Matter of fact, for a printer I know whose shop was in his garage and basement I installed a single to three phase converter to run a small press.

j.

http://www.phaseconverter.com/#ModelGuide

The laser that Vermin wants to power may be cheap but the rotary phase generator is a thousand bucks.

j.

Gartth,

Think for the link! Looks interesting!

You might be able to come up with a used 1 of these http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/servlet/the-1623/MILLER-BOBCAT-3-PHASE/Detail you could have a back up power source for your house or @ LEAST MAKE SOME REAL BIG SPARKS!

These guys out of LA make em to order http://duropower.com/index.asp?FID=23&level=1#