motorcycle tire patch

Sparkstation, I owned over 60 motorcycles & did all my own work on them- I still have a bike & keep it licensed though I haven't ridden it for 9 years- your claim as the speed of Ajay is utter BS in my humble opinion- I had a BSA GOLD FLASH that did 90mph, a Triumph T110 that did 99mph, a BSA ROCKET 3 that did 106mph etc,etc,etc. The Ajay 650 twin was well known as unreliable, the cast iron crankshaft liable to self destruction. Certainly if one was stupid enough to descend down a cliff, the velocity is possible!!!. As to patching tyres, certainly this is possible- demount tyre, buff the area with drill mounted wire brush, then apply cement & patch- this is what tyre repair shops do all the time on car tyres- but with present day Bike power to weight, the rear tyre only lasts 1000 km if your're lucky!- so why bother!.

I would suggest a new tyre is cheaper than a new bike or a funeral

Del

Agreed.

it's cheaper to just replace the tire than the bike :)

I have been riding motorcycles for over 25 years. Patching the tube was often the only option available. Wasn't like there was a tube in your size at the local auto parts store. The question isn't should you patch it, but can you patch it reliably? Are you going to sand off / scuff up the surface enough for a prefect seal? Quality patches? Take the time to knead the patch with the wheel looking tool? If you are not confident in getting patch to permanently repair the leak, then always keep a spare tube handy.

Understand the risks. The back tire is far more critical that the front. You can ride a flat front but a flat back tire will kill you even at slow speeds. Yes the front is your steering, but the back is the reference for stability and turning. A flat back tire will have you all over the road before you get it stopped.

Certainly don't have someone else patch your leak.

Also look into using slime. It will not flat proof your tire, but will significantly add to the time you have before the tire goes flat. The tire will go flat slower and hopefully you'll notice in time. The slime also hydro-balances the wheel for a smoother high-speed ride.

I've been known to have three patches on a tube before retiring the tube. I'm lazy these days and will not run a spoke tire or change them myself. I am not above plugging the tire though, but still add slime after plugging for insurance. Tires are $150 and up. I've caught a nail in the first 200 miles on fresh rubber. The dealership will not plug the tire for you and will not test ride it if they see that you have plugged it yourself.

Back to patching a tube. If you patch a tube correctly the tube will not ever leak at the patch. The self-vulcanizing rubber and rubber cement will fuse the two surfaces together that you can not peal them apart. Practice on an old tube. You will not get the patch to come off without ripping the tube. Note, the rubber cement is not glue!!! It doesn't do any sealing. It is not a little works ok and more works better. It is part of the vulcanizing process and half of the bonding process. Too much and you seal to the cement and not to the rubber. The process of painting a thin layer of rubber cement on the surface is as critical as scuffing the surface clean and ruffing up the surface so the bonding has more of a chance to soften the rubber. The cement will combine with the tube rubber to form a tacky bonding surface the self vulcanizing rubber will combine with. The cement has to completely dry first too!

Practice. Over inflate the practice tube and see if you can get your patch to fail. Never over-inflate at tube you intend to use or you will deform the tube and cause problems with the tire. You can check the tube in a tub of water looking for bubbles. In fact that is how you fine the leaks in the first place.

Hope this was helpful.

<Also look into using slime. It will not flat proof your tire, but will significantly add to the time you have before the tire goes flat. The tire will go flat slower and hopefully you'll notice in time. The slime also hydro-balances the wheel for a smoother high-speed ride.>

Question on this... Wouldn't the "slime" be inclined to move to the area furthest from the axle, ie, the heaviest part of the tire/wheel combination? If so, wouldn't that throw the tire/wheel even more out of balance?

sounds like you've got an ace speedo tuner there sparkstation ; )

I had a Porsche that used Z rated tires, it wasn't whether I would got 160 MPH, it was whether I could GO 160 mph.

If I blew a tire at high speed, I could probably survive it, if I had a good grip on the wheel. On a bike, you suck, you die! Nothing more to be said.

Tire less than perfect + speed = dead.

C'mon why take a chance. Why gamble your life for $100.

P.S. Bike owner for 22years.

I agree with the posters that recommend a new tire though my motorcycling days are far behind me.

One point that nobody mentioned is that when putting inner tubes in a tubeless tire, you add a further danger as the inside of tubeless tires are generally not completely flat and smooth (at least on car tires, though its a year or two since I last checked this out!) as a tire made for an inner tube is.

This means that with normal riding, the rough inner side of the tire rubbing on the tire, can eventually make a hole in the tube and let the air out, but not out of the tire necessarily, but into the tire only, the tire remains inflated.

The inner tube can be flapping about in there, eventually pulling the valve out of the valve hole and leading to a very sudden deflation....assuming the tire was not already holed, then the sudden deflation would have occurred when the inner tube got holed.....

On car inner tubes they put some grooves in the valve neck to let this air out not only when the tube is first inflated, but the tube can become stuck to the rim in the area around the inflater tube, to make a partial seal and not let the air past (which is still suspect to my mind as to whether the grooves are a good thing or a bad thing!!)

Theoretically, you could still end up with a small amount of air trapped between the inner tube and the tire, that you cannot know about!!!

My personal take for tires is never to put a tube in a tubeless tire and secondly, never have tubed tires either.....those days are long gone, except maybe for a push bike!!

....but I am only a careful car driver, I haven't motor cycled in years......but surely a motor cycle needs even "better" tires than any car, in all respects........anything with tubes is to my mind not as good, although old fashioned spoked wheels generally have to have tubes.....

Just a thought Guys.....

Tubed or no tube depends on the wheel. If you have a wire spoked wheel you have tubes. Can't put tubeless on a spoked wheel. If you have a solid wheel, it is best to have a tubeless tire. Hence if you get a nail in a tube tire, replacing the tube is cheap and easy. Tubeless tires you can plug and or patch or both, as there used to be a special system that used both. I would never patch a tire, but I have plugged them with reasonable success. It it all on how much risk are you willing to take. You are taking a risk every time you ride. Helmet, no Helmet, repaired tire or replace the tire are choices you have to weigh. Obviously replacing the tire is prudent and the best choice.

I would never have someone else patch something my life depends on. I would not patch a back tire except when you have no other choice. I have had to patch a rear tire on a long trip at a rest stop in the middle of nowhere.

When your bike is your only transportation and you can't afford to replace the tire, you make the choices you have to.

I have been riding for 33 years. Over half of those years a bike was my sole transportation. I have taken some risks that my fellow bikers would not. I understand a shop refusing to patch a tire. Having someone else patch my tire is a risk I would never take. However, repairing a tire yourself is a lot of work. It is not an easy task. Repairing the tube or replacing the tube is not the same as a bicycle wheel. The principles are the same but tire is far less manageable. Without the right tire changing tools you'll likely pinch the new tube during the installation.

Currently I ride an 2008 HD Ultra Classic Electra Glide. I rode a honda CB750 for my first 20 years. I always changed my own tires and tubes. Tubeless tires back then were rare and dealers were not as plentiful. I stopped changing my own tires 4 years ago when I started riding Harleys. If you can afford a Harley you can afford to have the dealer change the tire. That is not to say I have not plugged a tire or two on the Harley. You don't have to remove the tire to plug it.

Risk is a point of view. How much risk is choice everyday.

As an aged rider, who started on a Harley in 1959, shifted to a 1954 BMW R-50 in 1960, then upgraded to a 1958 BMW-R-50 in Los Angles in the late 60's, I agree with Dragonrider that, "I would never patch a tire, but I have plugged them with reasonable success. It (all depends) on how much risk are you willing to take. You are taking a risk every time you ride. Helmet, no Helmet, repaired tire or replace the tire are choices you have to weigh. Obviously replacing the tire is prudent and the best choice."

However, since I also rode competitively on a 500cc BSA Gold Star in LA hill climbs, I always wore a helmet, since I was frequently falling down on some super steep assent. Learning how to fall proved useful, as explained later on.

Now, if you are going to repair a tire, you should do it the best way possible. In my opinion the KEX Patch-N-Plug #382 units are superior to all others. They have a hollow metal spike surrounding a tapered plug, affixed to the inside sticky side of a flexible rubber round patch, something like a giant rubber thumb tack. You insert the metal spike from the inside of the tire, which has been buffed and coated with rubber cement (I use "Camel #12-086). Then you pull the spike completely through the tire from the outside. The spike feeds the plug through the tire, seats the patch on the inside of the tire, and then pulls off, leaving the plug protruding through the tire. You then "Stitch" or push down the patch on to the tire from the inside (I use a star wheel stitching tool), and trim off the protruding plug tip. You then have a plugged tire, with the plug retained on the inside by the attached integral interior patch, which also provides additional air sealing. For motorcycle tires, the #382 unit is best, since it is very flexible. For stiffer belted auto tires, I use the #386, which I note is no longer listed on the KEX web site - http://omg-vl.ru/add_files/KEX_Brochure.pdf - which incidentally presents an excellent step by step visual tutorial of proper patching methodology.

I have never had a tire so patched and plugged fail.

But I have experienced a catastrophic rear tire blow out, from an almost brand new tire, which must have run over something evil. My '58 BMW started to weave from side to side, in ever expanding arcs. I tried the racing maneuver of reverse steering - no luck. I tried timed front wheel breaking - no luck. Since I was riding on that section of the Grand Central Parkway in New York City that has vertical concrete side walls, the next larger arc was going to put me into the wall, so I executed a controlled lie down, something I had done many times in the past on my Gold Star on the dirt. Since my BMW had crash bars, the bike slid along rather well on the crash bar, until the rigid rear peg caught in an expansion slot in the concrete roadway. The bike stopped short. I did not. I catapulted forward through the plexiglas windshield, and automatically tucked and rolled, as I had done on so many previous hill climbs on the dirt. But concrete is not dirt. I broke 5 ribs in the back, a clavicle when breaking through the windshield, and 3 metatarsals when my foot hit the handlebars on the way out. At that time I had only been riding for ten years, so 9 broken bones averaged out to 0.9 bones per year.

I can state with personal authority that a rear tire motorcycle blow out is very difficult to control. I have had both front and rear tire explosive blow outs in cars, and have been able to control the cars. I was not able to control a motorcycle rear tire blow out.

I also should mention that over 50 years ago, at about age 18, I worked summers in a Gas Station, doing tire repairs, which in those days consisted of patching tubes, or installing a "boot", which was a large thick patch applied to the inside of the tire. There were no plugs or tubeless tires around when I was learning about tire repair. And there were no tire machines in my gas station - one used a manual bead breaker, tire irons, a large semi-circular water tank, and a heavy rubber faced steel maul to effect a repair. Pure manual labor, intimate hands on repair. I still do it, although I have purchased a manually operated tire machine (made in China - where else?)

Actually there are several designs of spoked wheels that use tubeless tires. Most have a wide flange that support the end of the spoke outside of the bead seal of the tire. Take a look at a BMW R1200GS or GSA with spoked wheels. Works quite well.

I must agree with those who don't patch.

I've lost tires w/20 miles on them, bad luck.

rider for 26 years

current ride: '06 Ducati 620M Dark

The general rule of motorcycle tires is that a patch (or plug on today's tubless versions) is only good until you get to a place where the tire can be replaced.

The reason is that a tire failure on a motorcycle will likely be catastrophic.

With a car you have a good chance of getting to a stop safely. With the bike stopping after a tire failure will usually be after a long slide or a sudden deceleration when you hit the armco barrier.

Or, as Del said, a new tire is less expensive than a funeral. Unless you buy Chen Shin tires, at which point you will be getting both...

Hi,

I am certainly no Engineer, but I am a 20+ years avid biker and let me tell you, there is no way I would trust my life to a patched tire, even if the repairman would lament how safe it was, not for me thank you. Seriously, I just replaced my rear tire 3 weeks ago, $150, small price tag when you consider your life is on the line. Car maybe, bike never. Not to mention at 100mph, that's just insane. Cagers have hard enough time seeing us at 'normal' speeds. And don't get me started about not wearing a helmet!!! lol.

Be safe.

Bill

I know guys who keep using tubed tires. Personally I would never! Maybe only as a roadside fix then get it replaced ASAP.

If the nail pierced (not tore) the rubber and didn't break and cords, it's likely fine to patch. If it did otherwise the tire has become weaker and more prone to failure. It's usually not possible to tell by looking at the tire from the outside, so why take the chance?

I would first have to say Slow down! to everyone that rides a motorcycle over 85-90 miles an hour. I had a blow out on a rear tire AT 40 miles an hour and flipped over and hit the road face first and slid down a rough asphalt road with the bike on top of one of my knees. It wasn't a pretty sight when it was over. My brother went into a high speed wobble from a wind at around 95 miles and hour and rolled head over heals along with the bike for 100 yards right down the middle of the road. I found the battery and the gas tank in a corn field nearly 200 feet from where the bike stopped. Although he didn't break anything the road rash was from one end to the other. When you patch a tire on any type of vehicle in my opinion you take more of a chance at high speeds if you do. I can understand why the guy didn't want to be liable for a patch especially if you told him how fast you planned on going.

pipewelder

Your name 'Brave Sir Robin" serves you well. I also have had some hairy episodes with a cycle and lost my younger brother to a motorcycle wreck. A few lucky or brave fellows can survive some ordeals like a flat tire but why take a chance. A cyclist gets few chance to make a mistake and live to tell about it. Spend the money if you want to hold your grandkids some day.

I too offer my condolences towards the loss of your brother, and in a way he was a brother to all of us as well.

I have read some good comments about the proper patching of inner tubes that remind me of part of my youth spent in a repair garage. We were trained to first determine whether the tube should be repaired, then it was a multi-step process to so this.

Wow, thirty (30) years ago. The rubber was roughed with a medium rasp, then a light coat of thin petroleum adhesive was painted on the area and lit with a match. The flame went out quickly and we applied a rubber patch that was contained in a diamond-shaped metal box. The box was clamped in place and the rear of the patch was lit with another match. The fire would spread across the back of the patch until all of the fuel was consumed, and it was allowed to cool. We again inflated the tube and held it in the water tank to measure our success.

But, that was a workshop-type repair and not the same one a man would make on the side of the road; where one is limited to using a scuffer, a bit of primer, and an adhesive-backed patch. I never patched a motorbike tyre tube in that way (I was no allowed to own one!) but I did repair several automobile, heavy truck, and tractor tyre tubes in that way.

Oh, my spelling of the word "tyre" vs. "tire." I was a German farm boy from a small village who began to learn the English language after my arrival stateside. My parents purchased for me the very expensive Encyclopaedia Britannica set that was written in British English, and those books are no doubt still my reference for correct English grammar and spelling-even if it is not always apparent, LOL! You would think I would have assimilated 100%, but I guess I do have some stubborness about me. (Really?)

I use the word "tyre" when speaking about something that fits around a wheel, and the word "tire" to indicate apparent wear or fatigue, whether human or machine. And, I am "tired" of writing about "tyres."

Best Regards,

Ing. Robert Forbus

Well, the concensus is "buy the tire" which I did, as a grammaticist, I find it interesting all the misspellings of "tire' (="tyre") - is that some kind of British spelling? As for my mentioned speed of "99 mph", as a possible lawyer, I would not make an admission as to speeding and so I exercise my right to remain silent-however, I have never been north of 127 at my old age, and that seems quite fast-I did see a video of my bike- a Suzuki Bandit 1250, with a new chip, filter, and pipes top out at 169 on the video speedometer, but I just want the mid-range throttle response to stay out of the way of CA drivers who suddenly need in my space.

That is what the spelling checker wants on CR4......its the US spelling.

I spell Tire, Tyre when NOT on CR4.....

'Tire' is the misspellig (American spelling) it's what happens if you stay up too late on CR4 e.g you get tired.

'Tyre' is the rubbery thing you put on a wheel.

When will we tire of this pedantry?

Del

Tyre is a jumping off point that the Crusaders used for messing with people in the Middle East. A tire is something you put on a vehicle and you use for running over silly furry animals that get in the way... Boo ha ha!!!

OK. Here's the thing... I've owned a number of motorcycles. Most of my dirt bikes used tubes. So on a flat, I'd pull out the inner tube and patch it. No danger, no problem.

On the other hand, the last street bike I owned was a 1999 Ninja ZX9R - the first 10 second (out of the box) bike, and it weighed only about 450 lbs wet. I would just as soon eat my own head as drive that beast with a patched tire!!! Hell! It had 145 HP!!!

Get the point?

I have a 2004 Road King Classic and I replaced the rear wide whitewall tire about 3000 miles ago $140.00 + $70.00 labor. This tire is a tubless tire. I was told by Dunlop that a combination patch plug installed from inside the tire was safe, depending on location and size of hole. Since my bike is a touring bike, and I rarely go over 55 MPH, I decided to go with the patch. RICK South Carolina!

You all are a bunch of idiots is all i have to say