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Safety - ESD - Inspect all things, keep the good things safe! New Zealand - Member - PalmerstonNorth -hub of the Manawatu.

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Power factor correction question

05/24/2008 3:12 PM

On our premisses we get 3 phase power supplied from a 11KV/415V transformer that supplies 750 KVA (1044Amps sec.side) to the main DB where the consumption gets metered in KWH by means of 2Watt meter method where the load is 3phase 4wire connected and draws uneven current. We get the 11KV from a plant that sits 7KMS away that is another division of the same mining company. This crusher mill site where the 750KVA tranny sits gets billed a flat rate being 15 cent/ KWH and no other charges are applicable. We noticed that the power factor is .57 if we add the correctly calculated capacitance to this incoming bulk supply point, will it only improve my efficiency of my electrical plant or will i also have a cheaper bill since we will draw less amps from the supply? Remember we don`t get charged/ penalised for poor PF neither do we pay KVA demand charge.

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#1

Re: Power factor correction question

05/24/2008 10:57 PM

Hi

If I understand your question correctly, your meter is actually submetering from the main division meter. As such, and since you are stating you do not pay any penalties, your portion of the bill will not change. However, your main main division meter will be savings some dollars as a result of two factors. First, they will save the kwh consumption resulting from the I2R losses in your 7KMS of your power distribution lines. Second, the power factor of your main facility should improve somewhat, therefore the penalty that they should be paying presently will most likely be reduced.

I hope the above provides some light.

Regards,

Luis from PR

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 4:38 AM

Hi Luis

Thanks for your valuable input, the answer you provided is roughly what I exspected.

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#2

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 12:16 AM

I would like to clarify that the power bill is based on power you consume and not on Current (Amps).By improving the power factor the current might change but not the power consumed by you.Therefore there will not be any reduction in power bill by providing capacitors and improving power factor.

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#6
In reply to #2

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 4:44 AM

Thanks Ramvinod

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#3

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 3:17 AM

The power factor is very low, normal should be around 0.8.

What you have are considerable losses in your cables because the of current, the heating of the cables is in KW.

It is certainly of interest to estimate the cost of capacitance vis the cost of the KWH

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#4

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 3:19 AM

Dear Sir,

The basic problem is very poor power factor(PF) of the existing plant.

To encounter the said problem , best way is to instal power factor improvement apparatus.

Basic equation of 3 phase power is -/3EICos$. Therefore if the system PF is improved from .57 to above .85 it will be a win win situation for all the concerned authorities and ultimately you will be saving national resources.

So just cooly think over the basic issue , which is teasing you all the time. , and try to solve expeditiously by improving the system PF ( Power Factor ).

Regards,

Ulhas Pradhan

Retd. Additional Chief Engineer GEB Baroda.

Tel. No. +91-0265-2775463

E-Mail-umpradhan@yahoo.com

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#7

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 7:30 AM

If your metering also includes line losses then probably your power consumption may come down due to reduction in losses of the 7km line.Otherwise there will not be any benefit as others have pointed out.

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#8

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 10:44 AM

Most people above are right. Your billing will not change much if you place the PF compensation at your feeder. Although, you might save some money if your equipment are dispersed over a large site and that you compensate directly at the major load(s). In this case you would save on the distribution losses of a few percent at most. Since the power meter is located at your end of the line, you don't pay for the 7Km line losses but the mill is. They should be interested in paying for some of the upgrade as they will save some money.

The type of load and the long distance from the sub-station command caution in selecting any compensation scheme. Do not target a power factor above 0.85-0.9 because of the risk of going leading and resonating with the feeder. You might have to add de-tuning inductors to the banks to prevent parallel resonances and reduce switching transients. Also, in such a harsh environment, specify a capacitor voltage higher than the line's voltage. This will cost a little more but will increase the capacitors' life dramatically.

If your PF is changing quickly with large swings, you might need to consider fast capacitor switches with a rapid controller. This will correct the power factor within a fraction of a second and improve the voltage regulation of your site. These do a good job in industries with impulsive loads or welding.

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Anonymous Poster
#9

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 1:31 PM

jakbeuk; it sounds like you maybe in AU or NZ to measure 3 phase 4 wire you need 3 watt meters, i suspect what you have is a 3phase 4 wire recording watt-hour meter & a 3 phase 4 wire recording KVA-meter. low PF means more current through the conductors. perry

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#10

Re: Power factor correction question

05/25/2008 8:23 PM

Cheers to all your answers as this definitely points me the direction I need to go with this issue.

Thanx

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#11

Re: Power factor correction question

05/26/2008 9:25 AM

You might have a CT in the wrong direction. That could explain the low PF.

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Anonymous Poster (3); jakbeuk (2); Luis from PR (1); marcot (2); nesubra (1); ramvinod (1); umpradhan (1)

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