Previous in Forum: Mass production of biodiesel for automobiles?   Next in Forum: Lifts Potential Energy Utilization
Close
Close
Close
17 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3

Wood gas

07/30/2008 2:30 AM

Hello,

I want to know producers for wood gas generator for industrial use because I have a natural gas reciprocating engine who produce 1MW electrical energy and my factory wants to buy a wood gas reciprocating engine with the same power.

Florian

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 588
Good Answers: 13
#1

Re: Wood gas

07/30/2008 3:06 PM

you already have the lowest cost system, why change? a 1500 HP unit set up to burn wood gas would have to be twice as large, I'd guess the new engine would cost about $5,000,000 and the woog gas unit another $2,000,000.

Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Wood gas

07/31/2008 1:50 AM

I intend to expand the system ( maybe with a smaller wood gas reciprocating engine) because in my country (Romania) the price of the natural gas increase to much. In the factory area, are many other factory who processes the wodd and I will found the raw material for the wood gasifier. So if you are so kind and of course, if you know some producers for wood gasifier especially from Europe i will appreciate.

Thank you

Florian

Register to Reply
2
Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Good Answers: 1
#2

Re: Wood gas

07/30/2008 11:22 PM

It will take a hellofalot of wood to get the Btu's that your Nat Gas engine delivers to drive the One megawatt genset. I'd guest the Nat Gas engine is rated at 750 horsepower or so. You would need a wood chipper, probably a bucket grinder to get the volume of wood mass that you need. The cellulose, possible a fast growing Florida native tree or bamboo, would have to be dried and conveyor feed into the gasifier to heat the wood mass in order to release the wood gas, probably at a rate close to a cubic foot every few seconds. The wood gas would have to be run through a centrifuge to clean it up, the size of that would be 10 cubic meters or so to handle the volume of gas moving pretty fast through it, probably clearing the centrifuge every second or so. You will have to make provisions to keep this clean or risk a fire, if it ran hot enough that would keep the centrifuge mostly clear. There would have to be a compressor to get the wood gas up to the density where it would be injectable, probably 50 psi or so. You would need to heat the gasifier too, it would make sense to use your wood product. The delivery of the wood mass as fuel would have to be designed to remove the burnt mass, maybe a heat exchange around the whole affair would increase efficiency if you could reuse the waste heat in the process, maybe to dry your wood mass. You would probably burn several cords of wood equivalent an hour. You can calculate the Btu's per horsepower that your gas driven generator uses and multiple that 2 or 3 fold do to the last efficiency of the wood gasification process. In Wiemer Republic Germany that had very little so wood gasification made sense. If you have a source of wood mass that is about a 1/3 of the cost of Nat Gas you may be able to justify the engineering and construction expense of a wood gasification system. Make sure the EPA doesn't get wind of it though, they'll come down on you like revenuers on moonshiner. Good Luck

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Wood gas

07/31/2008 6:28 PM

Does the EPA have jurisdiction in Romania?

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Good Answers: 1
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Wood gas

07/31/2008 7:54 PM

No silly, AL Gore does.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hop around Toronto, New York & Karachi
Posts: 1876
Good Answers: 19
#15
In reply to #5

Re: Wood gas

10/05/2008 3:28 AM

Really, I though Bush did !

Anyway good detailing.

__________________
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. Woodrow Wilson
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7498
Good Answers: 97
#12
In reply to #2

Re: Wood gas

09/07/2008 2:30 AM

Wood gas being methane would seem to refute your claim

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: outside Cincinnati
Posts: 115
Good Answers: 5
#6

Re: Wood gas

07/31/2008 9:06 PM

Another name for wood gas is "producer gas" if you want to search the internet.

Wood gas is composed of the following by weight: 20% hydrogen (H2), 20% carbon monoxide (CO), small amounts of methane, all of which are combustible, plus 50 to 60% Nitrogen (N2). As wood gas is burned the product of combustion is carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapor (H2O). The major problem with wood gas generation is the production of carbon monoxide, a poisonous gas that is very lethal.

You can generate wood gas very easily using a stratified, downdraft gasifier. For the horsepower you are needing it would be very large or would have to have several smaller units. I know you can run a 160 hp engine in stationary mode off of a 14 inch by 32 inch gasification unit made out of 2 - 55 gallon barrels.

I have found that 20 pounds of dry (less than 20% moisture) wood will produce an equivalent amount of gas to equal 1 gallon of gasoline (87 octane).

This is using chips or blocks of wood. If you want there is a description of a stratified gasifier in a publication from FEMA for emergency operation of IC engines in a petroleum emergency.

Will supply link if you need it.

Your original question was about, if someone was still making them. I don't know, but, during the war (WWII) GM, Ford and Mercedes-Benz build them on the "Imbert" model. I think that there are several countries that are still using them. Korea still was running charcoal taxies in the 60's up to the early 70's. Checking in this area may give better results.

Ric

__________________
Anything can be made, sometimes at great expense, resulting in greater satisfaction, :)
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Good Answers: 1
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Wood gas

07/31/2008 10:02 PM

I'd love that link, thanks! Have you got one in operation?

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: outside Cincinnati
Posts: 115
Good Answers: 5
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Wood gas

07/31/2008 10:32 PM

http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/support-files/wood_gas_generator.pdf

This unit works. Simple and easy to manufacture. Ran a 242 CID off it last winter and as long as I kept the gas under 100 degrees f it was fine. Seemed to loose power with the temp going over 120 degrees.

Disassembled the unit and am now modifying the parts to mount on a platform built to fit the back of a jeep wrangler to test the unit on the highway. Having a little difficulty with the pmc. Keep thinking that the old mail jeep might get the project as it was not computer controlled. Trying to manufacture a mixing carb to do away with the manual valves we have used to mix the gas to air at 1:1. This works with a steady load but under the varying loads of the highway driving I would like to make it foolproof.

Will have more information as I complete the project for highway use.

__________________
Anything can be made, sometimes at great expense, resulting in greater satisfaction, :)
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 588
Good Answers: 13
#9
In reply to #6

Re: Wood gas

08/01/2008 9:11 AM

20 pounds of wood on the average will have about 125,000 BTU's. But, it would make at best 30,000 BTU's worth of wood gas. That means you'd feed the gasifier 2 tons/hr of wood to run the gasifier.

The most efficient thing wood be to put a wood burning boiler in p[lace. Then when you run out of wood, you'd switch to more plentiful coal.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: outside Cincinnati
Posts: 115
Good Answers: 5
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Wood gas

08/01/2008 5:15 PM

I have literally tons and tons of 4x4's in 48 inch lengths that are well cured. I just block them into 4x4x4 blocks and feed them into the hopper. I was using about 100 lbs per hour with the 242 CID old jeep engine running with a steady hydraulic pump load. Once it was adjusted it seemed to run just fine. The ash was reduced to a very minimum in the process. One thing you have to have is a good filter system. I used a 30 gallon drum and also a water filter unit. Then filtered the gas on mixing through an filter air box from a 2001 jeep. Worked well, the filters collect the dust that is carried out of the gasification unit. Most is stopped by the chip filter and what gets past there is stopped by the water filter. Very little makes it to the air filter boxes.

__________________
Anything can be made, sometimes at great expense, resulting in greater satisfaction, :)
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 588
Good Answers: 13
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Wood gas

08/01/2008 5:31 PM

he will be running a 8000-9000 CID engine

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Good Answers: 1
#13
In reply to #6

Re: Wood gas

09/07/2008 11:18 AM

I'd love that FEMA link if you wouldn't mind posting it, maybe FEMA's good for something after all. Thanks,

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7498
Good Answers: 97
#14

Re: Wood gas

09/07/2008 2:07 PM

Soak softwood wood chips in water about 180 days, add water and chips to a large steel tank with inspection hatch a top. Place tank in depression about 2/3's of tank will be below surface. Depression should be about 4-5 times larger than tank. Layer in moist wood chips and other biodegradable materials around tank in depression and to a height about 8' over tank and 20' x20'. allow heat from decomposition to enable rapid production of methane from inside tank, pipe gas to compressor or directly to engine.

Can wrap tank with tubing and input cold water while outputting 160° hot water continuously about 12 months.

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#16

Re: Wood gas

01/19/2009 4:37 PM

there are some large woodgas units for sale in the us and other countries,large,industrial scale. if they are employed with an adaption known as a monorator,they can burn high moisturegreen fresh cut wood and chips very well. i am sorry i couldnt find the links today. i may post some suppliers later if i get to look them up soon.

Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Wood gas

01/22/2009 11:24 AM

Thank you!

I'll waite.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 17 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); bwire (2); ducon (1); florianlupea (2); L-5vision (4); RicinCinci (3); vicini (3)

Previous in Forum: Mass production of biodiesel for automobiles?   Next in Forum: Lifts Potential Energy Utilization

Advertisement