Another RAM question

WOW ! Thanks, Spark ! really good article !

I hope other readers might find it as interesting as I do.

Personally I use AVAST and ZoneAlarm to protect my computer. I defrag before I need to write big files (video etc). So, I think there's no problem in this section.

I need a RAMdisk because often I work with soundfiles. My program (CoolEditPro) does all manipulations directly on a "work space" file on the harddisk. So if I ask the program to e.g. pull up the volume of a sound or song, (easy explained:)it takes the bytes kinda one by one from the harddisk, performs the amplification, and write the byte back on the disk. (prolly the progwill use "blocks" of bytes...)

Anyhow ... You understand that this process is quite time consuming. If I could set the "work space disk" as RAMdisk, I would save alot of time. 2 GB would be a nice space to use as working disk. But I also want to keep my (first) 2GB of RAM for windows and programs.

So I would like to know before I invest in more RAM, if I'm gonna be able to use it for 100% (=2GB of RAMdisk + 2GB of "standard" memory)

Thanks again !

44mEurope,

Why not say "thanks" to Sparky with a good answer vote.

Click on the "Rate" tab.

Honored Sir,

HOW it is that YOU give YOURSELF >>Good<< mark?

You are devaluating system of giving good marks for good answers, please dont do THIS again!

I have seen that others do same in other threads, too!

That is PLAINLY STUPID, even if they THINK they are CLEVER :-((

CR4 TEAM should PRECLUDE this from happening!

I STRONGLY PROTEST!

Hello Henrik14:

this is a friendly request to you OK?

How do you know the original poster gave himself or herself a point? If you can tell I would be interested to know how? It may have been 'Bricktop'?

stay safe

babybear?

First : I did NOT give myself good (or any other) points.

I am not interested AT ALL in the point system ... If winning points is your only goal, then you should join another forum (there are 1000's out there !)

I only want to participate in this really fantastic and very special forum. I want to SHARE my humble knowledge, I don't want to sell or trade it for points... If some one can take advantage of my posts, well, then I am satisfied. A "thank you" at the bottom of his/her post is more than enough for me.
Some answers to my questions are good, some are not "right to the point". But I understand that is difficult to solve a problem from far away.

But please remember : any answer to my questions is always highly appreciated.

Have a nice day !

Although I agree with 95% of what you wrote, I do heartedly disagree about your position on the points system completely.

If someone gives a good answer (the answer in question was very informative), they should be given the points for that good answer.......its as simple as that.

You could liken it to good manners, saying "thank you", for example, when you have been given something, as you have when someone gives a good answer......

So please do not any of you forget your manners, they are as important here as anywhere.....remember the old saying:- "Breeding shows!"

44mEurope,

my friend, calm down. You just caught Henrik14 on an off day. He usually doesn't snap like that. He is very knowledgeable but some folks aren't diplomats.

Just chill, it was "a lot of storm and fury signifying nothing", "a Tempest in a Teapot", if you will forgive my mixing of metaphors.

We are all here to learn and teach and share. We are Technocrats, and, as such, we are above such petty squabbling about points. Let's leave the war and the hostility, and the insanity outside of CR4. Here is peace and learning. Please, everyone, let's keep it that way.

Henrik14, I'm sorry if anything I've said here has offended you. It was never meant to be hurtful or any sort of critique. I'm simply trying to smooth out a wrinkle. I hold most everyone here in the highest esteem. However, we are all human with all the joys and sorrows that being human entails. Speaking of en-tails, Del the Cat is still the coolest of the cool.

/Ari (Orpheuse)

I've been told (by a NASA programmer - so consider the source) that your machine can make use of 4GB, but there's some monkeying with the configuration to be done.

Yes, it should be possable to use 2Gig for a RAM drive, but I would be very cautious about 'monkeying' around the config files. Make a really good full system backup BEFORE you start playing with this option. Make sure your backup has a copy of the current system state. That alone will save you hours of frustration and might even save you from a complete meltdown so don't skimp on the backups. I would (and have) done an image backup, a system state backup, and a full backup including the registry and user settings. It doesn't matter if you go through 20 or 30 disks in order to be completely certain you won't loose even a period on your EULA (End User Liscense Agreement".

Now, as to how to make that extra ram into a ramdrive, that is something I have never tried so I won't offer any advise on how, but it can be done. It would be done with much more confidence if you have all your bakup disks in a cigar box on your bed (so you know where they are).

Good luck and please keep us posted.

/Ari (orpheuse)

Hello 44mEurope:

just a thought and not sure if it is of any help.................

Have you tried working with an external ram-drive? using it to do specific jobs only?

stay safe

babybear

Yes, Babybear ... I tried to use a USB stick as "working" folder", but it wasn't really faster than my 750GB Seagate ... I gained about 5% in time. OK. 5% IS 5%, but that means that a 1 hour tranferring is done in 57 minutes ... Even worse : the time spent by transferring to and from the (Hard)disk is about 25% of the total time of my projects. This means that the gain in speed with a stick is less than 1 (one!) % from my total working time...(about 36 seconds/hour...)
I did install a 1 GB ramdisk, and this gave me a speed improvement of about 30%. This means that I gained 20 minutes on 1 hour transferring. In total work time this means about a gain of speed of 8%... and that's more like it! That is about 5 real minutes per hour. It means that my total job, wich takes about 5 hours with HD, would be done in 4.5 hrs. That is 30 mins more time for reading and posting at CR4 ...

But running a "heavy" program with XPpro on 1 GB is kinda asking for troubles, and makes the whole system slow down. I even guess that some of the speed of transferring from and to Ramdisk gets lost because of the cramped space for operating system and program. Also 1 GB of ramdisk is OK, but 2GB would be better ...

Anyhow ... thanks for your support !

Hello 44mEurope:

I may be saying some 'obvious' stuff, but, bear with me..................

Yes it does seem the external drive does not look the way to go

Have you actually tried to fit 2 x 2Gb memories? Do you have another computer you can test things out on?

Do you have enough room on the Motherboard to connect another RAM disk? To help things out. Do you think you will get another 30% if you can? This is in addition to your first RAM disk, OK?

I have XP Pro with 1 Gb plus 1 Gb of virtual memory. I built my machine 5 years ago and as far as I know the memory I used (1Gb) (2 x 500) was the most for the Motherboard I had. .............But,..................it may well not have been the maximum the XP Pro can use!

babybear

My Mobo supports 4GB... Seen the price of the RAM : I think I just gonna try to put in the 2 extra gigs ... and carefully read (and reread) the link provided by Mr. (or Ms.) Keywalker ...

Thanks Babybear !

I read a post on this thread that said yes you can. Hope it helps!

http://www.codeguru.com/cpp/w-p/system/devicedriverdevelopment/comments.php/c5789/?thread=63514

I just read the outside post:

http://www.codeguru.com/cpp/w-p/system/devicedriverdevelopment/comments.php/c5789/?thread=63514

The RAM disk they are talking about is for the Windows Swap File. Doing that would really screw up Windows, much more than usual.

I still can't see why you need that extra gig? What do you want to put on it?

If it's function is to preload some sort of data, XP has a Pre-fetch system that anticipates the next piece of data you need. Unfortunately, like everything Microsoft, Pre-fetch doesn't clean up after itself. You need something like Registry Mechanic to clean out some of the more arcane caches like the ones that pre-fetch leaves behind.

If I have only one complaint about Microsoft, it's that it is never quiet finished. It's always 75% or less. Oh how I long for Linux.

/Ari (Orpheuse)

No, You cannot! At least not easy.... I am computer profesional for 35 years, and I would not even try it because MS OS-es fall apart easy as it is!

I had same situation with W98 and 1Gby of ram, where OS cutoff memory to 750Mby without even asking me for permision....... It was wrong because it SHOULD have been able to use UP TO 1Gby RAM, (and this could be adjusted) but it would NOT work with 1.5Gby or more RAM.

Problem is with address space, since TOTAL what XP can address is (officialy) 4Gby, but it needs to put Graphic Card RAM and other things within this space, so how much You would be actualy left depend on size of Graphic card RAM buffer.

Therefore, You do install additional 2 Gby if Your MB can take it, it is allways usefull to have as much RAM as possible, then You would see first how much is left there to use...

I would be very carefull with RAMDISC software, unless author GUARANTEE it would not make problems with XP!

I did not try VISTA yet, but knowing MS it would hog 1GBy of ram to itself so You would end at same position....

It is time that finaly all MS OS users stand and say NO to being forced to move to NEW and untried OS, or to pay for better patched OS with just differentr makeup!

If weall do this, they would have to give it free, since we PAID for good OS and got just pile of code showeled on one pile, that more likely than not would fast meed patch biller than officiall release...........

Now, real advice from me would be to find BETTER program, or contact author of this one, describe problem and see what he say, perhaps he allready have better version or could give advice how to make program work faster........

It allways exaperated me to see PHOTOSHOP using just 64 MBy of RAM regardless of 10-30 times more available, just because authors did not check how much RAM user had and resize buffers accordingly........

I have similar problem because I need lot of RAM for my Neurall Network programs, and if I use HD, it become 100 times more slow, which is unacceptable. Therefore, I am forced to invent new way of storing my Networks that are usually just 10% populated (kinda similar to human brain, see?) and would actually need just that much of RAM :-))

Good luck and please inform me about results, even if I cannot put more RAM in my PC, I plan to buy one that could have 128 Gby in future........

Marijan Pollak, IT SA/SE 1st. Class, Instructor and Team Leader (retired)

From Zagreb the capitol of Croatia, EUROPE (not EU yet!)

What if you switched over to a Linux operating system?

Linux takes up very little of your computer resources compared to Windows, which means you would have more RAM available during normal operation of your computer.

Linux is LUI but it has a GUI Shell and there is probably some associated programs for Linux that allows you to work with music fles.

Linux ? I wish I could ... but haven't found a program that does the same things on Linux as my CoolEditPro does on Windows ...
thanks anyhow, Janissaries !

When people tell you that you can only use 3GB of ram on Windows XP you should demand proof!

This link refutes that claim.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796.aspx

The ram disk software you use should be able to use whatever ram you have installed if it is written well and PAE is turned on. Your only limitation should be the amount of ram the motherboard will accept. As for Linux... fogettaboutit...

Regards,

Keywalker

Also, I might add that whatever system drivers and caches that are currently using ram in your system can be allocated to the upper 1GB of 4GB of ram using 4GT.

Wow keywalker ... very intersting ... Gonna have to read it over a couple of times, but I guess that THE answer to my question has to be found in the link you supplied ...

Thanks !!!

With all of the comments to this question, with no definitive conclusion, why not spare yourself the time, trouble and risk and purchase either an external hard drive or, if you only want 2 Gig, buy a 2 Gig memory stick/flash drive.

The memory stick/flash drive, it seems, is the de facto 3.5" floppy disk, especially in a sneaker network. There are certain large files that are too big to e-mail but too small for a C/D. Another option is a DVD-RW.

Is there a specific program that requires you to create a RAM drive?

If not, always go with the simplest solution. Easier to understand, easier to implement and, when the inevitable 'weirdness' occurs, one less thing to worry about

I hope this helps. Good luck, buddy. As always, please keep us posted.

/Ari (orpheuse)

Thanks for your input Orpheus, please read my replies #2 and #18

44mEurope:

And the real answer is Yes but you will require significant codewarts to create a userspace to to apply it. And with these codewarts you could develop a better manner of thru-put for A/V file rendering because is not RAM that is the limiting factor.

For instance separate your OS from working files; put OS on one HD and A/V software etc. on others. I write others because you could gain from RAID 1 writing to two or more HD's while maintaining peace of mind lost when using RAID 0.

When I need advise I go here.

Hello 44mEurope,

I've reread all the posts here. It would seem to be possible to add a RAM drive. While several folks have said 'yes' no one has gone step-by-step. I'd like to know how to set up the system for a RAM-drive, but how do you actually do it?

/Ari (orpheuse)

Orpheuse :

I use a program called "Ramdisk" (kinda obvious, no ? ) but I don't remember where I got it. There is no info or whatever to find in this super simple easy prog. It works fantastic, tho ... If you want I can email you the install file (it's a full 151KB Zipfile !!!)

Just lemme know !

Hello 44mEurope:

Sorry for my stupid suggestion . I thought a RAM disk was an actual disc or something like a HDD.

Looks like you more or less found your answer anyway, and I can see it being a real boost to others having similar problems!!!!!

stay safe

babybear

Thanks for that, 44mEurope,

I'm running a "learning server" from home - going for certification. I want to see what happens with that 4th Gig Ram drive and the server. I've got the server backed up 7 ways till Sunday so there's no worries of a crash, and I will definetly let you know - just don't hold your breath, it may take me a while to get to it.

/Ari (Orpheuse)

Just as a side issue, if you're looking at upgrading the RAM in a PC, go to the Crucial web site. This site can run an on-line scan to identify the type of RAM you have & will advise how much extra you can fit.

Obviously they are doing this in the hope that you will order memory from them but there's nothing to stop you shopping around.

The 4G limit is a 32bit hardware limit. You can get over it with a 64 bit processor AND a 64bit OS.

In any 32 bit OS (Windows or not), it can only address a max of 4G memory. That include video memory space and all IO addresses. Hence you can't use/see 4G of memory since some of the address space is used by other hardware devices.

I'm not sure if it'll work if you got 32bit OS and 64bit cpu.

64 bit cpu will not get you over the 32 bit OS limitation. It has to do with the addressing capability of the OS. If you read the link I provided and/or search around a little you will find though that Windows does provide a 36 bit option that greatly extends the amount of possible ram you can use.

Regards,

Keywalker