Battery backup of Dell Inspron 1501

What is the battery make up? Li-ion, lead acid, Ni-Mh?

If he purchased it 6 months ago it "should" be lithium batteries. These do not have a memory "so to speak of" that would require full discharge and charging to maintain optimum battery life. I would bring it back to the place of purchase and have the battery replaced and/or the charging system checked out.

A similar thing happened to me with my new Dell:

I went to eBay and purchaesd 2 extra batteries, and an extra charger.

They have stood me well over the past few years. I would advise you to stock up on components you will need, just a little anyway.

A modern laptop should to my mind handle at least an hour of normal use on battery. Some good laptops can double that. What does your manufacturer claim as the battery life for this model.

Have you set up your laptop so that the HDisk shuts down after 5 minutes non usage. Do you have your screen always at full brightness? Is your CPU setup to slow down when not needed? Is your WIFI always switched on, even if not needed?

All of these things (and more) use battery power quicker if not set up correctly for your usage.

Also, no matter what the battery type, having it always being charged when working at your desk does age it far quicker. Either remove the battery when not needed, or turn on and off the mains so that the battery is not over charged once full.....

6 months is a very short life, may I suggest that you try and get it replaced as well.....

Andy those are good points all. But his Dell was (is?) factory defaulted to perform the power saving shutdowns by default. It implements this in what is called, "sleep mode," in which slight power is allocated to RAM to keep the current session loaded but, after a short time of no activity (and virtually no battery depletion), the computer automatically goes to "hibernate" mode, in which the current session is saved on disk and the computer is shut down (to zero-power-use) mode. As said below, Dell recommends this power management scheme. Now, while it might seem logical to shut down entirely (or remove battery) to save battery reserve, when the power consumed for cold boot-up under battery power only is taken into account, on balance, more power reserve will be available on wake-up from sleep (then hibernate) than would be available from cold start from total shutdown (from lots of HDD activity at bootup and log-in).

That Dell notebook model is also designed to prevent any chance of battery overcharge while "on the brick." He has doubtless ruined the battery by deep and frequent discharges (off the brick)...something about which Dell very prominently warns. Also, Dell cautions...to use the notebook the first time on the AC adapter...as the battery might be less than fully charged when leaving, or in transport from, the assembly plant in Malaysia or wherever. Topping off then should have only taken a few minutes. But not topping off and discharging deeply on first use most likely set him up for what he's dealing with now--a ruined battery at only a fraction of its originally expected life. If his battery was the (standard issue) 6 cell, and he left the laptop on Dell factory-set power management default, he would (normally) expect from about 3 hours, up to the advertised maximum of 5-6 hours, running on battery--proportionately less and more for 3-cell and 9-cell batteries, respectively.

Hope this is useful for one and all.

Over the last 18 years or so, I was deeply involved in the supply to a large US company here in Germany of laptops, mosty Toshiba, but not all.

We replaced our laptops at between 2.5 to 3 years, so reckon with 6 replacements of between 160-180 laptops each time. So guessing a bit, I was involved in the purchase and maintenance for over 1000 laptops or more (I do not have an exact number in my head!)

During that time I believe we went from NICAD to NIMH to LIPO (if I remember correctly) and we gained a lot of experince with each type of battery. The one point that was always the same was that the people who mainly worked in an office environment invariably required battery replacement months, sometimes years before the service engineers did....who were "on the road" so to say.....

It is simply bad policy and bad for the chemicals in them to charge ANY battery type beyond full........most run warm at that point and they are often in a warm placen as many laptops run quite hot in service.......

We instituted a policy that required the office workers in particular to simply remove the battery while running on mains power, this reduced battery usage from what was usually a flood after the first year to a tiny trickle after the laptops were 2+ years old. Quite a change and easily monitored.

On reading back through what I have just written, it has struck me that it is of course possible that temperature plays a larger role than we imagined at the time, but the fix is still the same - take the battery out. My present Toshiba gets quite warm when running and this also cannot be good for the battery.....

Although I don't see any difference myself, Sony reminds all customers (for all producst) that batteries should be stored in the charge state where the device will shortly switch itself off through low voltage, that is not fully discharged I might add. I can easily accept that this is valid, but have not followed is so slavishly myself.....taking it off charge is the important job I still feel.....

My present work/private Toshiba LT is now 2 years old and the battery is still perfect.......

I still have an old 468 Toshiba Laptop that I was given (after I used it in the field for 3 years) maybe 12 years (I still use it for a CAD software package for PCBs that runs still perfectly on it) or more ago, I have not really a clue as to exactly how old it is, AND IT STILL HAS A FULLY FUNCTIONING BATTERY!!! MS-DOS, Win3.1 etc.....and no network connection!! Not that it is used that often, 3-4 weeks a year, no more.

It would appear, at least to me, that most laptop companies show little interest in designing the electronics to properly shield the battery from overcharging and over temperature, it would probably be quite difficult to do and still maintain the laptop's electronics in a running condition and not subject it to any spikes by switching charging off and on as required......

I manage it quite easily with my caravan and lead acid batteries as there is a good clear indication of the state of charge from the cell voltage, but all secondary dry cells under load, do not exhibit these changes in a manner that can be quite so easily used!!! Off load of course it is quite easy to detect when to stop.....

But as new batteries cost large sums of money, the large companies producing laptops do not have a proper interest in fixing the problem I feel.....so we need to fix it ourselves!!

The person concerned must read this blog and make his own mind up from the various tips given.....by mine has been tested over a period of many years on a very large number of laptops and their respective batteries.....

Somebody told you quite wrong. Those are lithium, not nickel based cells...they don't have memory problem...but discharging a lithium ion cell frequently as you are doing will quickly wear it out...and it will not be covered under warranty. You should keep the notebook connected to the charger as much as possible, even when not using the computer. Avoid as much as possible using the computer for high-power-required tasks when on battery only. HDD is the largest internal power user so extensive read-writes (disk scans and such) should be avoided on battery power. Use USB interfaced peripherals on plug-in power as well. The secret to battery longevity is to discharge the battery as little and as infrequently as possible.

Note: There as scads of instructions in your hard-copy manual and onboard Dell and Microsoft documentation that explains all this. You should read the manual cover to cover. It appears you have already compromised the battery and will need to get a replacement from Dell. Expensive lesson, but a learned lesson nevertheless. Be sure to check with Dell as to proper disposal...they might have an exchange mailer policy that covers your machine. Check your sale invoice and you'll probably find it there.

And remember, get advice from the manufacturer...not just somebody.

Another thing: battery backup? What do you mean by, backup?

I am sorry, but you do not appear to understand the problem fully, the batteries get damaged by being on charge the whole time the mains plug is inserted and the battery is fully charged. Its also a waste of electricity to keep charging once full, eg. not green!

If you want your battery to be really top WHEN NEEDED, then you need to use the battery until its at the point where the laptop shuts itself down. Do a shutdown of the OS, remove the battery and use the laptop the whole time you have mains on mains only.

When you want to travel, replace battery and charge it before travelling.

While plugged into the mains, especially if the mains is not reliable, always only let the battery charge till full and then pull the plug, replace the plug just before empty, this exercise will keep the battery fit.

It is long prolonged charging after its fully charged that damages modern batteries, nothing more, nothing less.......

From #6 and #5 (Somehow #5 came up as Guest...and there was no edit after post by which to correct the error.)

Andy, please understand that I have not been refuting anything you've said about (let's call them) "tried-and-true" methods of battery maintenance. Instead—and what might not have been made sufficiently clear—my effort has only been to assist Abid (original thread starter) with his, specific problem. Hence I've provided information respecting only his 1500-series, Dell notebook, and reflecting only my experience with those particular computer models.

According to my reading of the OP, Abid's concerns center on two issues respecting his unit's battery which is not functioning optimally for him after only six months:

• He asks, based on evidently misinformed or misconstrued advice of others (based on what "they" say), if his Dell's problem could based on a failure to discharge the battery sufficiently ('fully') between recharges (i.e., between re-connections to the Dell converter "brick" connected to mains).
• He appears to want an explanation of what he could have done to cause his problem; and (by inference) to know if something might be done (short of sacrificing his battery) to remedy the power problems he is seeing with his 6-month-old computer and battery...more specifically, whether 6 month's battery exhaustion is normal.

With these two "problems" in mind, I provided Abid with what I believe are accurate responses pertaining only to his specific circumstance (but not to batteries in general, nor to "historic" problems encountered with rechargeables) as he described it, namely:

• That "charge-level memory" problems associated with nickel based cells cannot be the problem with his Dell because his computer is fitted with Lithium-ion battery for which such problems have never been observed to occur.
• Hence, Abid's concern that he might not be sufficiently discharging (running the laptop unconnected to mains adapter) between "computing on the mains" is unfounded.
• That service life expectancy of his unit's Dell battery (and according to my understanding this applies to other-type storage batteries as well) is best optimized by maintaining the battery in a full-charge state; something Dell clearly states its computer's power circuitry is designed to do.
• That Abid's problem almost certainly derives from over-discharging (running on battery only and disconnected from converter brick) too deeply and too often.
• Which, according to clearly stated Dell instructions (had they been read) portend a rapid "wear-out" of the battery (where "wear out," as opposed to "in-use discharge," is defined as a cell's/battery's normal, decreasing capacity to accept "full charge" with continued service use (or storage use) over time.
• That Abid's problem might well have been exacerbated by a failure (again, in violation of clearly stated Dell instructions which warn of damage to the battery) to run the computer "on the brick" at first use in order to ensure full-charge top-up of the battery after delivery from the factory.
• That according to instructions that came with, and are stored on, Abid's Dell computer—instruction which clearly state that the computer, in tandem with the AC adapter brick, will prevent (will disconnect battery from) overcharging . . . such that it is acceptable (Dell instructs 1500-series model users that it is quite okay) to leave the computer connected to the brick (thence to mains) without regard to overcharging.
• Andy, perhaps you noticed where, in the introductory sentence of my previous post, I specifically acknowledged, and did not take issue with, your comments as to the hazard of overcharging. (And that does, in fact, seem to be the thing that is giving you fits: you say, "Overcharging!" whereas I [and Dell] say, "Over-Discharging!") That said, however, it appears to me that (in the context of Abid's problem) your otherwise well-founded advice falls short on one account: it fails to consider the significance & importance of regulation (switching/circuity) in the "proper" maintenance of charge in order to extend battery life as well as prevent battery damage. Said another way, although your comments (to Abid and myself) regarding overcharging are not inaccurate in a general sense and context, they reflect a problem (a more or less historic problem) of which equipment and device manufacturers (including Dell) are well aware; and for which (in these times) regulating circuitries have been designed and incorporated—at least this will usually be the case for expensive products such as automobiles . . . and is the case as well for Dell's (and, presumably, every other manufacturer's) currently marketed laptop computers. Accordingly, I believe it would be fair to say, without controversy, that in Abid's and similar situations:
1. It's the design and quality of the battery charger that counts . . . not (except on rare occasions) the quality of the battery.
2. That if the manufacturer (in this case Dell) gives specific instructions and warnings as to how the charger (comprising the power adapter and and the computer) is to be used, it only seems reasonable that they should be followed.
• On this point it also seems appropriate, Andy, to take ever-so-slight issue with your point about whether or not to trust a reputable manufacturer's (in this case Dell's) battery use & maintenance instructions. Maybe you and others would disagree, but in my humble opinion, and reasoning heuristically, the notion that Dell would mislead its customers for the purpose of inducing the destruction of batteries flies in the face of common sense, for multiple reasons:
1. It is unfathomable how it would be possible (or make any sense) for Dell's design group to go along with such a fraud and not revolt, turn to whistle blowing, or abscond to the competition.
2. With most manufacturers it is the marketing group, not design or production, that is tasked with embellishing products and/or blurring product distinctions with the view to maximizing sales volume and profit across product lines. Following your suspicions, one would expect, then, that a computer mfr's marketing group must also have technical aptitude on par with Design in order to craft specific (and also false) technical claims about a product's capabilities and performance . . . and do so without calling attention from Design, from the (direct or indirect) Sales force, or from corporate Management.
3. If Dell's charger-use instructions for the 1500 series are dishonest, then so must be the hardware indicators and imbedded software (GUI) notifications pertaining to battery condition and charge status also be false . . . so that we must believe also that the software writers and software documentation writers are also in on the plot (?!); and not only they but also the Pubs group manual writers as well . . . who, as a rule, are provided source matter from, and pre-publication approval by, the Design group; albeit usually with inputs from Marketing.
4. It is hard to see how any small profit from replacing batteries long before their time would outweigh the (world-wide) risks of legal liability, whether from government or from individual or corporate legal actions.
• If that is to be believed, then an unlawful collaboration between all the major laptop manufacturers must also be suspected.
5. Given the recent, well publicised incidents involving battery explosions and fires due to computer (battery support) design flaws, is it not to be surmised:
• That the design of recently produced Dells (such as Abid's) has taken those incidents into account with the view to ensuring against overcharging or any other malfunction leading to battery rupture/explosion liability? Furthermore,
• Would it not be in Dell's best interest to avoid any deliberate misrepresentation about use and charging of Abid's laptop . . . this in the knowledge that
• such a wanton deceit would be viewed in courts as intentional negligence (or even criminal conduct) . . . for which liability, including punitive damages, could be further compounded?

Now, for Abid's and others' possible benefit, I'd like to respond further about battery heat, the subsidiary aspect of overcharging which—you very correctly point out—is the enemy of battery durability. Let me begin with a point, unmentioned until now, about Abid's computer:

• It might be helpful for Abid and others to know, that, if Dell product instructions can be believed, Abid's computer's battery maintenance subsystem also incorporates sensory circuitry which continuously monitors battery heat; and implements shutdown (including disconnection from AC adapter output whenever an overheat condition arises. (Note: this will be shown in a moment to have relevance to Dell's instructions for proper use and care of battery and charging system.)

According to my information, heat generation and dissipation is an inherent recharge effect with all rechargeable storage battery types; as battery charge level increases towards battery capacity, so does battery internal resistance and, with it, heat generation. The problem when attempting to follow manufacturer's and others' advice about "heat" is that the term itself is nebulous:

• How much heat (what battery temperature) is too much heat? And for how long?
• How does one sense (tactilely or otherwise) that a battery has overheated, given that heat is a necessary product of battery recharging?
• (And how would one sense an overheat condition inside a computer; or shut down a computer and extract the battery in time to prevent overcharge? Especially if one might need to read battery replacement instructions in the manual? )
• How can one "protect" against battery overheating (i.e., overcharging) and still ensure full charge as a desired condition for maximum duration of battery-powered service, and a necessary condition for optimum battery life?

It would seem there are only two answers to any of those questions: the manual (effectively a trial-and-error) approach that you have alluded to; or the use of automatic recharge regulation, including overcharge protection. But, given two competing objectives when it comes to Abid's computer (charging to max without charging over-max) I would say that using his computer's built in charging regulation and battery/computer protection is the logical way to go.

To further demonstrate why Abid is not ill advised by my responses—perhaps this will partially allay your concern about my lack of understanding as well—I would like to offer on small bit of anecdotal evidence based on observation of my own, 1500 series notebook computer—this will go beyond the customary lap-top use admonishments (such as not blocking computer's vent openings, and avoidance of lap-held laptop use by males). I have observed while using the computer that noticeable heat is absorbed from above and and dissipated at the computer's bottom. (Sometimes even the internal cooling fan activates.) However, whenever the computer is switched off (whether it be to sleep (partially powered) mode or to full shutdown, within a matter of seconds the computer case has cooled to tepid. This would, it seems, be an indication that the computer's internal charging regulation and over-charge protection is (present and) functioning as advertised. (The battery is not continuing to be charged.) Since I often check battery status on screen before quitting a computer session, I know this to be the case even when battery is at or near full charge.

On a related note, are you wondering, like I, why Abid has not returned? Perhaps he absence is an indication:

• That he found the answers to his own questions elsewhere? Perhaps from Dell?
• That he is busy reading the manual front to back as recommended?
• Or that he is tracking down those people hoping they will replace his ruined Dell battery . . . because it was their bad advice to treat it like a NiCad.

To all viewers: If you are not reading this, then no GAs are necessary. But if you think it's been GA-worthy in spite of reading this far, please scroll up and give them to Andy. ...because this post is only an extension of his post . . . if you know what I mean.