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Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/20/2008 3:14 PM

I am currently working on an application where we have historically used compressed nitrogen as a back up to compressed air for the operation of pumps in an emergency operation. The issue is when we are attempting to use these pumps at rated speed the comsumption of nitrogen causes them to freeze up at the exhaust and there for stopping the flow. We have tested with alternative placing of the regulators (2400psi to 120psi), removed mufflers etc. We are now to the point of adding ethylene glycol to the system but would prefer not to do this as it will effect the operation of the pump air motors.

Is there a suitable alternative to the use of nitrogen in this application? Has anyone faced a similar issue?

any comments or suggestions are welcome.

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#1

Re: Subistution for compressed Nitrogen application

08/20/2008 3:20 PM

It's not the nitrogen per se that's the problem...it's the fact that you are using gas from a cylinder at high pressure which will cool as it expands. The solution is presumably to have your backup supply at a lower pressure? Cylinders of CO2 are commonly used to provide cooling in small environmental test chambers (or they were about 30 yreas ogo)

Del

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#2

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/20/2008 4:46 PM

Reckon you need to incorporate a heat exchanger to warm up the nitrogen. As Del says, the expansion as it comes from the cylinder will cool it (a lot!) - so you've got to lose some of the coldness (good physics, that!).

Next problem is - if it's used as a backup when your compressor goes off-line, there's a good chance you'll have lost your mains power, so you need something to get the heat from (i.e. to lose the cold to ).

Maybe a big tank of (?ambient temperature) water? Don't know where you're from, so no idea what "ambient temperature" is. You'd also have to do the sums for how much heat you needed to provide to warm up the gas, so you could work out the volume of your "cold sink" (AKA heat source) for the worst-case scenario. May have to keep the heat bath pre-heated while the power is on.

Just a thought ...

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#3

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/20/2008 6:16 PM

If you are pumping something, it is heating up at the exact time that you are expanding the nitrogen. Use the product being pumped to warm the nitrogen being used. I think the best benefit will be to use the heat exchanger just before the nitrogen enters the pump.

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#4

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/20/2008 10:39 PM

Try putting a multiple stage orifice in line with the nitrogen bottle to take many small pressure drops before the air motor regulator instead of one big one.

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#5

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/20/2008 11:40 PM

Contact your compressed gas provider they have several gases that you can use instead of using antifreeze and dealing with the polluation problems related to that.

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#6

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 12:56 AM

what is use of air for pmup operation?and also specify at which condition is operating means tempature, pressure.i may be help u if you tell me more about the operation and operating condition deatails.

pankaj

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#7

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 3:39 AM

Google the Joule-Thompson expansion effect, and see what happens.

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#8

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 4:19 AM

Hello,

We did a similar attempt when liquid CO2 was obstructing our expected system success.

We introduced a CO2 absorber/converter in the system and Problem Solved.

From that logic, compressed Nirogen converting in to Nitrates must be giving you the process difficulties. To avoid Nitrate Formation or dissolving thereof, I suggest you Place a Small Dose of Nano CATALYST, new discovery by one of the inventors, we know, which is non perishable and effective to Handle Nitrates.

Catalyst Cost is INR 10000 for a small dose of 100mg good for one CuM. I am open to arrange supply and call back at 50% cost refund if it fails to meet your needs. Same Catalyst could be used to remove Nitrates from Waste Water say Sewage waste Water Or Drinking water infested with dissolved Nitrates making it non potable.

This is only a thought and you may advise the Dimmensions of your Holding of Nitrogen in flow to suggest a sutable Insert of Catalyst in Device form.

Pl. get back to me on kishorekaikini@gmail.com kishorekaikini@yahoo.co.in

Best Of Luck;

Kishore

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 4:54 AM

<...compressed Nirogen converting in to Nitrates must be giving you the process difficulties. To avoid Nitrate Formation or dissolving thereof...>

This is incorrect. No chemical changes are taking place in this system. All the changes are due to the physical properties of nitrogen at different temperatures and pressures, which are similar to the properties of air.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 5:55 AM

Dear Sir,

Thanks for educating me. I am R&D enthusiast with No background of Academics in Science. My adventures in Solving Problems with logic, Common sense and experience (Age 62) many times helps me with SUCCESS SYNCRONICITY.... this is new Divine concept word as discribed by GURU...Dr Deepak Chopra.

What I perceive may be incorrect by scientific Norms, but Nature is beyond Science and thats my comfort zone to suggest the possibility. If it suits you pl. consider Or REJECT with no insult meant.

Reagrds:Kishore Kaikini

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#11

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 9:54 AM

The reason the nitrogen becomes cold is that it cools on expansion due to Joules Thompson effect. Helium and hydrogen warm when expanded at room temperature, but helium is too expensive and hydrogen is too dangerous to use in your application.

There are only three solutions to this problem that do not call for adding something to the gas stream: reduce the nitrogen pressure in the backup supply storage tank to the point that the cooling does not cause freeze up, or warm the nitrogen before it is expanded, or some of both. In the first case the nitrogen will still cool, but not enough to freeze the air motor.

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#12

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 11:36 AM

You need some type of heat exhanger or gas warmer between the regulator and the pump. I have seen finned tubes installed on large compressed gas tank delivery lines that are only exposed to ambient temperature. These may form ice on the fins, but the gas is sufficiently warmed for plant use.

Ask your gas supplier for a source of these heat exchangers.

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#13

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 1:37 PM

Google "ambient air vaporizers" and you should get around 9,000 posts similar to this product.

http://www.chart-ind.com/litfiles/11640222.pdf

Install between the regulator and the pump. Best of all, it has no moving parts and after purchase and installation will use no energy.

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#14

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/21/2008 6:03 PM

PV=NRT, Work up the temp drop for your self. Simple.

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#15

Re: Compressed Nitrogen Application

08/22/2008 9:17 AM

I have also seen this problem with both pipeline and vaporized nitrogen (and compressed dry air) on the discharge of air diaphragm pumps. In our case the expanding nitrogen left the exhaust ports very cold. The N2 was very dry. Lots of ice accumulates on the exhaust port and restricts the flow. We concluded that the moisture in the ambient air was condensing and freezing on the very cold parts. The first solution was a vendor supplied antifreeze that is aspirated to the inlet gas supply. That gets expensive.

We evaluated warning the incoming gas, it was not cost effective. The ultimate solution was to run the exhaust gas through a pipe and larger "muffler" away from the pump discharge. The Exhaust area was increased to a very large pipe that could warm up as it is exhausted reducing the temperature drop. Freezing sometimes continued but away from the mechanical plenum and pump parts.

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