Super el camino

Oh wow! I could have had a V8!

How much does mileage matter. That 454 ain't going to get 18.

The LS series engines are the future, But the oil pan and steering may interfere. The electronics on the LS are more difficult also.

The first gen small block can be anywhere from 262 to 400 inches, but it gets to be ho hum.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

What transmission do you have? How strong is it? The clutch (if you have one) will need to be as strong as the transmission.

How strong is the rear axle?

If I was on your budget, I would want the big block. Even if I had to go to one of the aftermarket engine builders. Spend your money on the short block. You can upgrade later if you want. Big blocks can come in a lot of sizes, 366, 396, 402, 427, 454 all the way up to 600 plus inches. They all look the same.

How about this plan? An affordable 396 motor. Ceramic coated headers. Collector extensions, and an exhaust crossover. Finish with a full duel 3 inch exhaust system, and low restriction mufflers. Anything you have bolted to this exhaust will make more power.

Next you will need a good high flow fuel system. Another thing you will need is a very good ignition system. An MSD 6 series controller. A powerful coil to go with it. To get going, you can run it from the stock HEI distributer. Use good plug wires, and .050 gap on platinum plugs.

Shop for a good price on an Edelbrock air gap manifold. These always test in the top 10% on any motor. Pick a Holley with spread bore spacing. The small primaries will give you the best chance for fuel mileage. experiment with spacers under the carb. the fore hole spacers should help mileage the most.

If you keep your right foot out of it, you might get this combo to live with the stock transmission and rear. Polished aluminum valve covers, or sand blast the originals and give them an attractive contrasting color either with powder coating, or paint. A big decent looking air cleaner that matches the color of the valve covers, and some carefully detailing should have this Elky drawing some stares. Depending on the rear axle ratio, you might get near the 18 MPG numbers you had. Back in 69-70 Chevy sold a 396 2 bbl carb, 400 turbo, and a 2.29 twelve bolt that was designed to give good mileage.

Be forewarned though. You may be only one hard throttle stab away from a new rear axle or transmission.

After you are better able to devote additional funds to the project, you can add aftermarket fuel injection. ( More power, and better mileage) An adjustable timing control for the MSD. (More power, and better mileage) A set of high performance aftermarket aluminum heads. ( More power only ) There is always nitrous if you want to tear out that rear axle.

Well you asked, so here it is.

OH WOW. My dream car/truck in the making. I've always wanted to do this to an El Camino. Just never got around to it.

I thought I would ad my 2 cents. I'm a big fan of the 1987 Buick Grand National motor it is a 3.8 liter V6 with a turbo, high rise manifold, fuel injection, and intercooler, all stock. The real nice thing about Buick design is that you can install an adjustablewaste gate that will allow you to have a daily driver with normal gas mileage, normal performance, until you decide to run. Then tighten the waste gate creat 21lbs of free turbo power and hold on. With your budget I would recommend a larger intercooler, and a nine inch stall converter about 2500 rpm should do it, and a transmission rebuild with kevlar bands and shift kit. If you have any money left I would recommend all new bushing and shocks anything else your El Camino needs. I have one myself that I have not started on, it's a 1983. Good Luck!

To start the frame, suspension and drive train components your Elky has will not support a big block without considerable modification.

Example of budget build for performance within your parameters:

350 V-8 small block all forged rotating assembly 10.5:1CR
186 double hump heads 202/160 valves 64cc
comp cams hydraulic Flat tappet XE274H
Edelbrock performer rpm manifold
1" open spacer w/ Holley 750 P# 4779
1.5 aluminum full rollers
Hei with Accel super coil
msd 6al W/ 8.5 super conductor wires
flow-tech headers 1 5/8 to 3"collectors w flow-master super 40's
1800 stall with 373 gears

I would lean towards a 650 tri-barrel for performance and mileage consideration, the secondary is sufficient and the primary is less. Add a gear drive timing set and it will breathe well.

I would say that the LS1 is the way to go. I have a '99 Z28 convertable A/T that has been dynoed just shy of 300HP at the wheels on a chassis dyno. I consistantly get 16.5 to 17MPG during city driving and I drive it hard. So, considering tha losses in the auto tranny, around 350HP at the flywheel and roughly 17 MPG around town, it is hard to beat the LS1 V8 for power and economy. There are companies who specialize in swapping the LS1 into earlier cars like yours. They make the swap parts that you would need.

With a 5000 dollar budget you would have to shop carefully, but you could do it, if yiu are frugal. I would buy a complete 98 or later Z28 that has been wrecked, cheap, and gut the drivetrain and the electronics to swap into your car. Then, buy or fab things like mounts and the oil pan, from these specialty companies. If you are handy, have good tools and can scrounge, you can get her done. Think, 350HP, 17 MPG and rock solid reliability. That is the route that I would go.

Thanks IanR, I think that's good advice. I already had a bit of a lean towards the LS and wouldn't mind doing the transplant with a Z28. However, I have the funds to just buy a crate. Also, what generation of LS?? Lemme know what you think. LS3?

While you do have a bevy options for the budget that you propose, I too will toss my 2 cents in. I have played with cars for years and have a 12 second, 9mpg car - NOT my daily commuter. With the nature of the Elky, you don't have a lot of weight over the rearend so the torque of a big block will just smoke your tires and not get you much for mileage. Carburetors are fussy when trying to obtain gas mileage so I would am leaning to what Ian has recommended. I would suggest an LT1 or LS1 from a Camaro or Firebird with a 6-spd manual transmission. Your looking at a solid 300hp motor with minimal loss through the manual tranny plus you get 2 overdrive gears! I have seen these cars pull 11 and 12 second ET's at the track and get 20+ mpg going home!! I know that the next toy I build will have an LS1 drivetrain with the manual. Hope this helps.

The only problem with the 6 speed is the shock loading on the corporate 7.5" rear end. It may not live very long behind that manual transmission. I can't believe I am about to say this but it an auto tranny will soften the blow and help the rear live longer.

If I had my druthers I would go with the 6 speed and save up to swap in an 8.5" out of a Grand national at a later date and just granny shift with the 7.5" 'til that time.

You see how these, quote, simple projects can escalate

My vote would be for a 400HP 383 stroker. Lots of power and torque and fairly light weight. Also, readily available and inexpensive.

Good call as well. The ZZ383 High performance engine smacks right on 5k and actually cranks out 425hp. Quite compelling.

How will you get this combo past inspection?

I have approached this problem from two angles. The first one is the one you are contemplating, an engine transplant. There will be some bugs to work out, but if you keep at it, you will have a nice vehicle. The other approach is to put a supercharger on your current engine. It's amazing what a few hours of labor, and a bolt-on modification can produce. You will go from 200 to 300 horsepower. Your fuel economy will not change (until you use the extra power). The only penalty you will pay is having to use premium fuel. You might even have some money left over.

Blower Drive Service in Whittier California can supply you with a 471 blower...,bolt on kit.

They did a 1969 Buick V6 /jeep /odd fire dyno at 410 HP...Jag suspension....turbo 350 tranny.

It was a daily driver shop truck in a 32 pickup.......good mileage but look out of you heavy footed it. Screaming tires/smoking rubber.

Used occasionally to tow show trucks...Big Foot.......into stadiums for pull events...

THIS COULD BE DONE WITHIN YOUR BUDGET.

MR. GUY

The 671 is certainly the classic supercharger and will do a fine job. For my taste, they are too large, and make too much noise. For a daily driver, I suggest the new series of Eaton superchargers. They fix the size and the noise problems, and are very reliable. Consider the use of a seventh injector. I've never seen it done, but I suspect you could run the car on 93 octane without boost, and when the boost comes on you could run high octane racing fuel through the seventh injector from a small reserve tank. That way you would only pay for octane when you need it.

The seventh injector theory has some problems to work out. 1) If used to augment the other 6 injectors, only 1/7 of the fuel will be higher octane. 2) The fuel distribution will be questionable at best, with 1 injector for the entire engine.

Perhaps a nitrous oxide system that only sprays fuel could be worked out though.

Mr. Guy and welderman suggest a blower/supercharger. Whats the difference other than the obvious appearance? And is that really gonna make any impression on a 6cyl? (262)

Technically they are both the same. Each is an air compressor driven by the crankshaft, usually by a fan belt or belts. If you use the word blower, 90% of the people will see a Detroit Diesel Engines supercharger. the design of there engines required an air pump to blow the air into the cylinders. Hot rodders quickly learned that if they could build pressure in the diesels, they could do it in a gasoline engine.

We all call them GMC 671s. But there were four series of this design engine that I am aware of. The 53 series with 53 cubic inches per cylinder. followed by the 71, 92, and 149 series, each with that amount of displacement per cylinder. they come in combinations of 2, 3, 4, 6, v6, v8, v12, and v16 configurations.

There are similar designs to the GMC now. The Eaton is one that has found favor with the American auto manufacturers. The shape of these is similar. They are about as long as the engine is, and narrow enough to fit between the valve covers of a V engine. Inside the blower are two long lobes that spin, and force air to go around them and into the engine.

The other supercharger design is smaller, almost circular and shorter. It has a speed increaser to make it spin many times faster than the crankshaft. Inside is an impeller that looks similar to a water pump impeller. As the impeller spins it slings air off of it's vanes, and into a tube that leads to the intake manifold.

Will it make a difference on a 262 V6? Ever heard of the GMC cyclone or Typhoon? These were factory hot rod S10 jimmy and pickups that were only available with 4WD for traction reasons. They were turbo 262s. You should be able to make 300 real horses from the same engine that is ender your hood now. You need to refresh it, maybe upgrade the bottom end, maybe even new heads, but it would be easy on the budget, good on mileage, and a polished blower will make them forget to count the spark plugs.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

How about a twin cam Accura motor with a turbo on it

I can't bring myself to even suggest that.

If your $5,000 budget is going to be a one time expense, go conservative, and add details that will make the Elky look good, without spending money, and reliability.

I'm with bob c in his post #11.

Consider a newer engine 2002-2004 complete with electronics could meet all your expectations and reliability features may provide the icing.

That is a great idea if you just want more power and reliability and better mileage. You could probably pick up a good running, late model, vortech S10 pickup or blazer for a couple of grand. Then swap the drivetrain and electronics over to the elky. That would make a very sweet swap. If you still want the V8 I would go the Camaro/Firebird route. They are in a similar weight class so you could even get it cerified and approved by the Smog Nazis, er EPA. That is of course only it has to pass emissions testing where you live. Here in Florida we don't even test anymore so anything (well almost anything) goes.

The transmission is a 3-speed automatic T2004R and everything aft of that is solid. The 3inch dual exhaust and low restriction mufflers are already on. I'm sold on the MSD. And yes I live in California so it'd be great if after this, I could pass smog. Thanks for all the feedback! You guys are a great help!

If you live in California, I do not think you will be able to get the big block past the smog inspections, without going to factory fuel injection from the later light duty trucks. This leaves you with all of the mechanical work to put the big block in combined with all of the electrical work needed to get the emission systems a seal of approval. At this point in time, I would have to recommend against the big block unless it is for off road only.

If you are going to have to pass emissions anyway, why not go with the later LS series drive train from a Camaro. Make sure you get the correct information from someone on what needs to be done to make it fit in the Elky. Good luck, and send pictures.

Thanks a lot for the input Bob. If you have anything more to add I'm all ears. I think the LS would be pretty nice.

I will go through my catalogs and try to find the company that I am thinking of that has done a -hit load of work on the new engine series.

Seeing that you are in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, emissions approval will be you biggest stumbling block. That in mind I would not suggest buying a crate motor(can't believe I just said that either)

Here's why, California clean air board allows swaps if the engine is from the same year or newer as the recipient vehicle, the new motor comes from the same weight class or lighter vehicle(ie no 454s from a 1 ton truck into a S10 truck) and it must retain ALL of the smog equipment that the motor was certified with. If you buy a crashed, but running LS1 Camaro/Firebird they are; newer than your elky, they are in a lower weight class than your elky(well the same one at least) and you have the whole car full of required emissions equipment. Trust me, if you try to buy things like cats, smog pumps, egr valves, etc piecepart the cost will kill your budget REAL quick! Then whe you go to the referee staion for approval, you show them the motor is from, a say 2002 Firebird, and they open the book for the "2002 Firebird" and they list off what gear it has while checking that it is there, then they "sniff" the cars tailpipe and make sure that it is as clean as a "2002 Firebird" and if you pass all above you are good to go. Take any other route and all bets are off.

Here is a new plan for the Elky. Screw the emissions. Screw the gas mileage. Screw the budget, get a new mortgage. Build it the way it should be. When it is done, ship it to Florida. You and I can babysit the car for him. He can fly out here whenever he wants, drive it like he stole it, and get his lungs cleared of that Kalifornia smog. When he gets his fill, he can go back to the wrong coast.

It would be cheaper, and less aggravation than the emission police.

Ha ha ha ha! LOL

That sounds like a great Idea!

What do you think Augie?

I have a friend back here with a rollback. We'll could even come out there and haul it for ya

Yea Augie. Then you don't have to come all the way here. We can just send you some pictures of how good the car is to drive.

If you buy a crashed, but running LS1 Camaro/Firebird they are; newer than your elky, they are in a lower weight class than your elky(well the same one at least) and you have the whole car full of required emissions equipment.

Close to my intended method of legally acquiring a used engine with all electronics and smog gear including a warranty for a Kalifornia car. These newer engines can have the tuning modified on the fly too.

Or he could just trailer it

Keep your comments to yourself! IanR and i are working him to send it to Florida for us to race Store for him.

Lol! ha ha you guys are funny. Honestly, I think this car has a lot of room for "breathing" when it comes to emissions. But there are quite a few legal loopholes I dont mind taking advantage of. If once a year, I have to strip, rebuild, strip, rebuild for a smog, fine. Or if I have to open up my own shop and fab the paperwork, fine too. A few years pass and it wont matter anymore. Smog laws change after your car is too old to pass.

Why bother? Let it sit here till the emissions expire. Trust me we will start it up regularly. Run it at the track every week. An occasional street race. We will try to drive it a little. No long trips though.

I don't know Bob. I think he's on to us

No they don't you better check the fine print on that

You NEED to read the October 2008 issue of Hot Rod. Six crate motors in one car. % sets of headers tested on one engine. It has your Elky written all over it.

Send pictures. How far have you gotten? Do I need to come out there and hold your friggin hand? If I do not get pictures in the next 14 days, I am going to sent the Rice Burner Police to make you put a Honda engine in it.