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Anonymous Poster

Communicating Design Intent in China

10/02/2008 8:51 AM

I'm a design engineeer in north america , dealing with China, I'm having trouble communicating design intent as far as language or (text) in my notes in the detailed drawings that China is working too.

They work really well to 3D CAD model, but not the drawings,I need to communicate thru text in the drawings so that they can also work to the drawings.

Is book or web site that can help, I need something that uses mechanical term or tems that you might use in a machininng environment.

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#1

Re: communicating design intent

10/02/2008 11:50 AM

if you find one, post it here, I have the same problem

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#2

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/02/2008 2:16 PM

Keep the language simple enough so that a child could understand it. Notes should only be there to assist in explaining the drawing in slightly more depth or to help indicate potential or special requirements that cannot be fully made clear using pictures alone.

Try to stay away from technical jargon as it doesn't translate well and can cause misunderstandings if the jargon is only used in the US. The same goes for acronyms. You may know what "Ensure molding is YFLR compliant using JSFT process", but others are unlikely too.

If the people trying to work from your drawings don't have particularly good English skills (or access to them) they may try and use an online translation tool such as "Bablefish". This does not translate technical engineering language well.

In the end, keep the language and text as simple as possible and let the drawing be the guide. If too much text is needed to explain something you should seriously consider creating another drawing instead, after all "a picture is worth a thousand words".

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#3

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 1:51 AM

Your problem is well known but was only first noticed during WW1 and WW2 when the English sought to have Americans make things from English plans.

The problem: is the Technical drawing rules and formats are different. The textbook case is Tolerances and Notes. Americans usually write everything on the drawing, the English number everything and use a text block. This might seem small but Packard found they had to redraw all the merlin plans as their engineers simply couldn't deal with it.

The Solution: is to visit the factory and talk to the engineers on the ground, they will show you what they use and can deal with, you can then make your plans sensible to them.

dont try and work it out over the phone/internet, you have to go see how they do things. Its no good telling them how to do something they have no idea about.

have a nice trip, Pity you missed the Olympics!

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#4

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 1:53 AM

In my experience, (which is somewhat limited) if I wanted the Chinamen to build from my drawings rather than from the model I would only send them the drawing in a PDF format. They can accomplish this with no problem, especially when I tell them that I can take my business elsewhere. There have been times that they would argue over dimensions and become somewhat anal over it, but you just have to make them understand what you want.

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#5

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 1:59 AM

Contact your local college and see if they have a Chinesse Language Class and see the instructor for advice on communicating with those in China.

I bet they can solve your porblems quickly.

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#6

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 4:50 AM

Save yourself a lot of grief and get an American company to make it for you.

It will be cheaper in the long run.

Otherwise you are just going down the Mattel road - and do you really want to have to recall all your products for the sake of a few extra dollars on the quote, but which will inevitably come off your bottom line after the Chinese have finished with you.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/05/2008 2:00 PM

"...and do you really want to have to recall all your products for the sake of a few extra dollars on the quote"

I don't have any figures to support or refute, but I'm sure it's more than a "few extra dollars". More like 9 figures, I would think.

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#7

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 8:48 AM

I do not know exactly what you want to ask. I am a mechanical design in Canada and I was a mechanical engineer in China. There is no such book you are looking for unless you can read chinese. If you give more specific questions , I can try to find some information for you.

Good luck.

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#8

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 10:02 AM

The solution has been known for years but damned few technical schools and colleges teach it (probably because their professors don't understand it either.) it is a little thing called GD&T. As an outgrowth of the packard/merlin fiasco noted above and other similar issues, there was an attempt by the US DOD to standardize on a universal drawing format that was language neutral. The result was MIL-STD-100 which evolved into ANSI Y14.5 and the ISO equivalent (which I don't recall the number at the moment.). It uses symbols for as much as possible and minimizes the amount of textual information used on the face of the drawing. It also allows you to show how the size and location of features interact with mating parts so that design intent is preserved. The downside is that everyone needs to understand the standard and how to use the symbols correctly.

There is a book by a former engineer from Honeywell titled "Geo-Metrics III" that is a very good reference book on how to interpret and draw to the standard. Unfortunately I cannot find my copy at the moment and it is driving me nuts.

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#9

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 11:43 AM

I would think the answer to your problem is to hire a Chinese person who can translate the drawings from English into Chinese. We had a similar situation. We had drawings in Italian to work from and we had to communicate both in writing and verbally in Spanish. We had a bank of translators who did nothing else but translate. For these people, we used temps. The job lasted two years.

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#10

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 4:50 PM

They know damn well what you want. They are just trying to get you to open the spec wide as a barn door. That way they can "industrialize" the process. This makes it easier for the billions of uneducated wretches over there to be able to make your widget.

Take you time now though, they are off on another holiday this week. The Chinese are almost as bad as the French.

If you have to whore it out to the lowest common denominator you may want to try india. At least they pretend to give a Sh*t.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/03/2008 4:56 PM

More than likely they are trying to understand the design well enough to rip it off themselves. The Chinese have no concept of ethics. Lie cheat and steal is the name of the game, they are as bad as all the politicians in DC. patents, copyrights, laws, they mean nothing.

I need a drink to wash the taste of the bailout crap sandwich out of my mouth, anybody have any muratic acid?

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/07/2008 4:29 AM

One has to assume that you have had bad experience dealing with the Chinese that would bring out such comments. (With the French as well it would seem). The Chinese have 10 public holidays this year. If they fall on weekends there are no days in lieu. Not excessive by many countries standards. Most of the country worked last weekend in order to make the holiday less disruptive to production. I find the level of education remarkably good all things considered and the work ethic is much to be admired.

They make terrible errors such as the milk debacle, but think of how many very high tech items that you buy that are manufactured to very high standards in China. It is not all good but not all bad either.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/07/2008 12:32 PM

"They make terrible errors such as the milk debacle"

They make mistakes and we make mistakes. The difference is they are not restricted like we are by insurance and lawsuits. Remember the hamburger case in the northwest? A few people died from eating contaminated hamburgers. Did they go out of business? No. They changed their name and are still in operation. Insurance took care of the dead people. If the Chinese make a mistake, they pay for it by recalls and embargoes. Here, insurance takes care of it and it's business as usual.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Communicating Design Intent in China

10/07/2008 12:43 PM

Eh, yes and no. Here companies fear lawsuits and higher insurance rates so they pro-actively try to avoid mistakes generally. But they generally don't have to fear having a 7.62mm bullet to the brain if they really screw up. Jail time at worst. There, the high level decision makers that intentionally take short cuts are protected from lawsuits and pretty much any other kind of backlash unless the embarrassment is so large that a scapegoat is needed, and then the human sacrifice is usually selected from one of the lower rung employees. The upper rungs are generally protected by friends within the governmental power structure.

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