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Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/10/2008 12:38 PM

The Edge website has an article on the misuse of statistics in modeling. My experience as a model builder (pointing control systems on satellites) suggests that there are a lot of lessons to be learned from this Edge article.

The author of the Edge article has written the books "Fooled by Randomness" and "The Black Swan". One of the author's big points was that the financial system relied on models. Models based on statistical assumptions by people who didn't fully understand the intricacies of statistics. To make matters worse, the model builders are rarely the model users. Most model users know even less about the short comings of a given model than the model builders.

The primary lessons for engineers are

  1. The processes that underly system disturbances are not always random and uncorrelated. Almost all of our modeling techniques are based on the assumption that the processes are random and uncorrelated. How does this "color" the model output? How accurate can the output really be?
  2. Most specifications are based on 1 or 3 sigma (standard deviations) values based on an assumption that the distribution is Gaussian (or normal). A 1 or 3 sigma value in distributions other than Gaussian means entirely different things. Does the systems engineer passing that requirement realize that the distribution may not be Gaussian? Does the design engineer need to re-interpret the requirement in some way to make sure the system actually works?

My thoughts can be seen in full detail at

http://blogs.controltheorypro.com/2008/09/engineering-control-systems-and-statistics/

http://blogs.controltheorypro.com/2008/09/observations-on-control-system-modeling/

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#1

Re: Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/10/2008 2:51 PM

Whilst your content may be admirable the title is rather daft..
I think the financiers should be taking lessons from engineers and scientists not giving them.
They are a bunch of charlatans and best and crooks at worse. Ant Engineer or Scientist who operated the same way as the banks and the money men would be fired damn quick.
Del

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#2
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Re: Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/10/2008 4:41 PM

No doubt that many of these financiers were neglegent at best and criminal at worst. Engineers get people killed when they screw up like this - the plane or bridge fail catastrophically.

I had a friend in the industry who warned of exactly this scenario last New Years. And his major point was that everyone relied on model predictions. It sounded like anyone who questioned the models' predictions was treated as a heretic.

Maybe I should have titled it "Models are fallible too"?

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#3
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Re: Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/10/2008 5:04 PM

Yeh, people confuse maths with reality...maths is just a tool like any other and it can easilly be missused.

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#8
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Re: Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/17/2008 4:23 PM

how does that saying go;

figures don't lie, but liars can figure.

and there nothin worst than an abused tool.

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#4

Re: Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/10/2008 7:53 PM

Measurements of the fingerprints - my term - of systems over long periods of time always provide the information asserting the non-randomness of disturbances underpinning systems failures; and the root-causes of these disturbances in some cases can be determined through a decoupling of the Fingerprint Time Series into harmonic patterns (or if you prefer patterns harmonics) which can effectively be related to each of the systems degrees of freedom and therefore failure modes and failure forecast capability.

Just my approach to correlated forecasting.

Good reflection though on your blog.

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#5

Re: Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/10/2008 8:56 PM

I was told a famous mathmetician composed a group for his financial service. All of them are composed by a group of mathematicians and physicians without anyone of financians. they loook down up Well str. and win billion every year.

probability and statistic is important base on modeling. games theory and information theory( of cause include prediction encode) play important roles. a good modeling can win but, otherwise will be fail heavily.

not everyone is able to understand verious of distribut and sampling.

Can anyone out there introduce me more useful control theory forum or bbs?

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#6
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Re: Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/10/2008 11:37 PM

I run a website which has a wiki, forum, and blog devoted to Control Systems. Start here if you are interested http://wikis.ControlTheoryPro.com. The google groups on control (sci.engr.control) is reasonbly active with a lot of good people on it but also a lot of spam. Admittedly my forum, while still online, is largely dead due to lack of interest by anyone but me.

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Re: Financial Crisis and Lessons for Engineers

10/11/2008 1:17 AM
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