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The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 5:09 PM

The purpose for raising this matter for discussion is that Russel Bourke, way back in 1954 created an ICE that some how managed to extend the top dead center of the compression cycle of a prototype 4 cycle engine, thus permitting the petrol fuel to enjoy a little longer burn/combustion time and it is published that the fuel/air mixture was considered very lean for the times. The photos of the prototype engine shows a two cylinder opposed, resembling a typical aircraft target drone type of the day. An opposed 4 cylinder was also constructed to prove the concept.

Fact: Inspite of all of the Scientific information stipulating that Oxy-hydrogen cannot be produced efficiently, I specificially request that the Scientist's "can it" as we have all read their comments regarding that issue while there remains assorted Oxy-hydrogen generators on trucks and cars that are demonstrating that the blend of that fuel gas and petrol improves miles per gallon on those vehicles.

Fact: What the thread poster is looking for is the possible use of any gaseous "fuel combined with petrol if needed", including the Oxy-hydrogen fuel gas, that might be well suited for use in an engine of this type.

Fact: Well thought out responses will consider that the extended TDC time will permit combustion to occur without the need to begin ignition before the fuel is fully compressed, as is currently the case with engines using liquid fuels such as gasoline and diesel. I believe that the burn time, including all of the energy producing effects, such as the time for a complete use of said fuel, without any added consideration for engine cooling, and even such issues as any shock wave that can be work producing if harnessed by movement of the piston, within the cylinder, is likely an important issue to include in your oppinion.

Fact: ICE's designed for specific use of one of these fuels might ultimately have more/less cylinders may have shorter stroke, and larger/smaller bore as may be best suited for the particular fuel to be used.

Toomuchfun

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#1

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 6:26 PM

"Fact: ICE's designed for specific use of one of these fuels might ..."

Fact: All the gas molecules in the room I'm in might congregate in the ashtray.

I'm not saying anything for or against your comments about ICEs, but to cite a "fact" containing the word "might" is not very useful as part of a reasoned argument.

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 9:32 PM

Your point is well taken, however someone once had an idea that it just "might" be possible to split a molecule, and ultimately someone got an idea that it "might be possible to build a long tube and somehow fire a part of an atom that is only part of a molecule in to some matter and create an explosion, I wonder just who might have thought that was possible way back in, lets just say 1942, that is the year I was born.

The purpose of the thread is to provoke thought and discussion about another method using the fuels that are available now and to do so with out having to completely reinvent the wheel.Oxy-hydrogen seems to be a word that provokes argument un-necessarily, but it seems to bring out the best in some and worst in others. Why not consider the other gaseous fuels that are available.

TMF

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#2

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 6:27 PM

Hi, have you seen any vehicles running on monatomic hydrogen ????

I have; and I have also seen a small GEO run on a mixture of hydrogen and all kinds of

different waste oils (waste hydrocarbons).

I have an instuctional DVD video from Roy McAllister where he teaches how to convert your engine to run on all kinds of mixtures of hydrogen and waste oils

(and alcohol if you like).

He recommends to start with a small briggs/stratton.

(before you convert your car engine) to get experience and get a feel for the process.)

NOT very difficult to do.

Timing is moved to appx. 2-10 deg ATDC depending on the mixture and those converted engines run very well with very very good efficiency (dollarwise)

If you google Roy, you simply can't miss him, the DVD wiil cost about 50 bucks.

(if I remember correctly, I'm past 65, so you'll HAVE to forgive me).

regards

Jens

BTW, He's been running on hydrogen since the middle sixties.

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#3

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 7:54 PM

As I recall, the Bourke engine uses a scotch yoke instead of connecting rods, and the crank pin, which moves up and down in the yoke, has a complicated multilayer bearing, as it gets really pounded. The assertion was made that the fuel detonated and therefore delivered more power. I was not convinced, when I saw it many, many years ago, that it was an improvement over conventional engines, but it was an interesting concept.

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#5

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 9:36 PM

Toomuch,

I'm having trouble "canning it". It just doesn't seem to fit. Maybe you can help. I'll try to pull it and you go around to the other end and "shove it".

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 10:58 PM

Tp45, I simply would like to avoid being accused of being a false profit, a promoter of a variety of products that I have never laid eyes on, some of which I personally view as being out right dangerous, being a supporter of formerly convicted fellon, and just having my statements being twisted until almost becoming a different subject and then being accused of being an out right liar by a GURU who was in fact committing the lie himself. This individual knows who he is. I will never again respond to anything he posts. I sincerely hope this won't occur on this thread presentation. I specifically selected the automotive forum to avoid offending folks who believe that because they are "scientists that their s--t has no offending oder. The "can it" was clearly a request to cease any of the continuing confrontations regarding the use of oxy-hydrogen, but if that terminology wasn't clear enough, I'm sure I can find some very offensive phrases that will get the job accomplished.

TMF

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/15/2008 6:27 AM

Toomuch,

I have repeatedly said that I think some of your postings have merit but that you dilute that merit with ad hominem attacks. You have a free rein to shoot down any of my ideas but as soon as you "take shots" at me, then I'm gonna respond.

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#6

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 9:42 PM

You do realize, Toomuchfun, that the mere mention of Oxy-Hydrogen will bring certain individuals flocking to this thread to discredit it, just like sharks to blood?

We both know the names, which I will not mention. So be prepared my friend.

Case in point comment #5.

Regards Dragon

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#7

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/14/2008 10:05 PM

Hello Toomuchfun

The Bourke engine movement is shown at right.

As I see it, the number of moving parts are greater than a "normal" reciprocating car type engine.

This means greater cost to make, and more wear of moving parts, neither of which is a good thing.

Because for each particular engine the fuel/air mixtures cannot exceed a certain optimum, the addition of a fuel gas instead of air (and the required Oxygen contained in that air) would lower the available output from the engine.

In most cases the proponents of various gaseous mixtures have not bothered to carefully do the complete energy requirements for their "working engine which runs on a mixture of diesel or petrol plus an on-board generated stream of XXX gas".

Experimentation is a good thing, or we would still be living in caves, round a smoky fire.

Experimentation on heat engines which goes down a "blind alley" in disregard for proven thermodynamic laws, will be a waste of experimenter's time, resources, energy, money, and family life too.

True wisdom for any experimenter is establishing which experiments are blind alleys, and which are not.

Kind Regards....

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#10

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/16/2008 8:07 PM

And we'll all get rich without working, too.

Just vote Democratic.

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#11

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/16/2008 8:25 PM

"Fact: ICE's designed for specific use of one of these fuels might ultimately have more/less cylinders may have shorter stroke, and larger/smaller bore as may be best suited for the particular fuel to be used."

& then there's the FUEL CELL!

@ present hydrogen is too precious to just burn.

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#12

Re: The Russel Bourke Engine and Oxy-hydrogen fuel

10/19/2008 11:04 AM

this is a great topic how to get more bang for the buck so lets take a look at what is avalible.What kind of fuel is avalible?Hydrogen,Methane,Gasoline,Diesel.What is the average burn time of each?How does that burn time change when you blend two or more of these fuels?At what compression ratio do you get max power without pre detonation with each blend?Only after we get these numbers can we design a new engine to work with our new fuel.This engine design is flawed in many ways,to many moving parts to rob power,longer TDC time means you need longer burn time to complete the down stroke so this engine would not benifit from a more volitle fuel like Hydrogen.The crank bearing set up is not going to last long and is not going to achive high RPM's.I am not surprised that this didn't make it out of the lab.I would like to see someone run a rotary engine on hydrogen or Methane now that would be fun to test since the burn time in a rotary is very very fast they dump most of thier fuel out the exaust

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