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Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: India
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Changing Motor Feeders

11/10/2008 3:56 PM

Hi everyone,

I am working with conveyors. Their drives are 3 phase squirrel cage induction motors. The project people designed in such a way that, the actual load is only half of motor KW by considering the future extension of tph and some other factors. We are mostly having Siemens (DOL) feeders. We are supposed to set O/L setting lesser than the available range in feeders since normal load is only half of the full load current. We accomplished this by inserting O/L relays of required range in feeders or by replacing MPCB.

For example a 30kw motor feeder is having a over load range of 45-63A. But the normal load is only 28A. So the O/L setting should not be more than 34A(28*1.2times) for the protection of equipments.

1.Can we use 22KW feeder for 30kW motor for getting requiired O/L settings? The starting current of 30kw motor is higher than 22kw motor and it is independent of load. Would it make any problem after long use?

2. If we insert one O/L relay having required range in 30kw feeder, Would the starting current of motor affect the relay?

3.Is it agreeable changing the standard design of Feeders?

Kindly give your valuable suggestions,

Thanks in advance.

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Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

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#1

Re: Changing Motor Feeders

11/10/2008 4:52 PM

I'm not sure how it is in India, but here in the US you are required to size the conductors and the feeder protective devices by the motor nameplate data. If you have the proper size cable but want to use a smaller (lower rated) protective device, that is up to you, but you will increase the likelihood of nuisance tripping. Thermal overload relays do see the starting current as part of the overall "thermal image" of the energy going to the motor, so starting a motor larger than the OL device is set for will indeed increase the risk of nuisance tripping.

Motor overload relays are really there mostly to protect against starting a fire in the motor circuit or damaging the motor windings. They are not the best "load monitor" relay, which is what I interpret your second overload to be used for. For that I would choose an electronic power sensing relay that can be programmed with a time delay so that it does NOT record the starting current. Siemens has such devices in their SIMIREL function relay product line. They have one that monitors "Active Power", meaning the real kW going to the motor, so it will know the difference between a current increase due to a voltage drop, or an actualy increase in the motor shaft load. That would be a better choice for what you are doing. Then just leave the feeder device set for the actual motor nameplate data.

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Join Date: Apr 2008
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#2

Re: Changing Motor Feeders

11/10/2008 5:48 PM

hi

lad for once please document your intension and the reasons so that we may be able to help you, use correct terms, I'm uncertain if your replacing the cables or the contactors or the drive, to me a feeder is a distribution cable to a load.

resubmit this thread please

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Commentator

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Location: India
Posts: 91
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Changing Motor Feeders

11/10/2008 6:50 PM

Hi ally z,

Here feeder is Direct On line starter. The problem is we need O/L setting at 50% of FLC. But according to standards , the O/L range starts from 75%(appr.) of FLC.

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Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Changing Motor Feeders

11/11/2008 6:23 AM
Dear friend ,

You can use relays of smaller rating on bigger size motors up to the limit as seen...

1. Thermal current rating of relay should match with the motor rated current. to avoid burn outs during starting. to provide type 2 protection.

2. time current chart to check for avoiding nuisance trippings...by pass contactors with timers may be required to add on to the reliability of operations.

3. Best you can go for Electronic motor protection relays that have wide range of selection.

guest

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