Fun With Math - The American Financial Meltdown

Hello Bricktop,

Since you brought up China I have a couple of questions. A few months ago I saw a video on the Documentary Channel. It is titled "Mardigras - Made In China". It did a pretty good job of showing the working conditions in a Chinese factory. Somethings I was unaware of were that the workers were only allowed to leave the factory one weekend a month unless they quit, except for Holiday leaves such as the New Year. Men and women were kept apart during the work day and have separate sleeping areas. If men and women get caught together on factory property, even in their free time, they will be fired. Percentage wise women made up over 90 percent of the work force in the factory featured. The plant manager explained that was because they were more easily controlled than men. Men were only employed to do work that the women were physically unable to do. I do not have first hand experience and would appreciate some input from people that do. Is this information accurate? I give a lot of tours to children here at the university and try to drive home how good they have got it. I try to stress how important an education is no matter where they take classes. I can look up statistics all day long. That does not replace first hand knowledge and details.

Thanks,

The Mechanic

Hello The Mechanic:

I have not seen that program but, have heard (hear say?) these conditions are not unusual. Can you say if the program focused on one Town or area?

Not on this topic I know but, If anyone can explain, preferable a Chinese person, what the 're-education' of so called subversives means, other than to force them to do what the Government wants and to stop dissent? This I think is sick and having read about it in several books, it is a waste of time. People do not change. They just become better 'actors'!

I read a book on what happened to one lady who did not tow the line. I do not know how she stayed alive. She had one 'meal' of boiled rice, and three mugs of hot water a day, for the 5 years she was imprisoned. She could wash or eat with the water, but not both. She was never charged and was in a room with no other room adjoining. The leaking roof left puddles which she would drink. Any remains froze in the winter. The cell was 5ft x 6ft, with a roll-up mattress made from straw. She would fold it into a chair in the day time. I do not recall where it was, what Town or place she was kept, but have a vague idea it was way up in North China.

Bear in mind here, we are talking of one of the first 'civilised' Countries in the World. I will leave it to you as to your opinions of the Regime which did this. The time I speak about is 1955. She was 45 when taken in, and just over 50 (I think) when released. That last detail is from memory so do not hold me to it.

Chinese people are fine and helpful. But the way they treat their own Citizens is disgusting!

Take care.............

The story line is about the beads used during Mardi-Gras. It concentrated on one factory in China. There were employee interviews and footage of them working. The video team also interviewed people at Mardi-Gras. They were asked where do the beads come from. Most did not know. Some speculated China, since it seems most goods are coming from there now. I do not know if this is a biased propaganda video or if it is legitimate. I am sorry if I am taking this thread off track. Curiosity is getting the better of me. I do invite anyone to chime in, especially if you have or are currently working in China.

China is probably no worse or better than were those other quasi-medieval countries that experienced rapid change from rural to industrialised economies*. The best could be pretty good, but the combination of historic power structures and rapid change inevitably leaves open the possibility of extreme exploitation.

Given these risks, should we buy from China? Probably yes, because that will allow the economy to develop to the point that the populace obtain some power (eventually, there will be labour shortages).
We can salve our consciences by purchasing from outlets that are known to monitor the conditions at their suppliers - but economic starvation will not help anyone.

*If don't know what the Dickens I am going on about, read him.

Hello The Mechanic:

Hey, you have not taken this thread off topic, in as much as it has gone this way, IE about the 'morals' of China, and it has made good interesting reading.

Given the choice I would always buy 'home grown'. But, the average public DO NOT get the choice as, 99% of the time we buy through a third, fourth, etc broker.

I cannot agree with you saying there will be labour shortages. Two thirds of the World population are Chinese in China. (As opposed of ex-patriots). Something near 10 times the number of people in the US. I just can't see 'labour' ever being a problem. Besides which, if one area of business is doing badly, the Government can shut that down and move that populace to where it is needed. If they do that, how are we ever to know, when no one can email or search for detail from the 'West' into China? They let you know Way they want to, and only that.

Take care...............

The Guest in the post following mine mentioned the labour shortage. I agree that it would be difficult to imagine a labour shortage given the population. I also try to by American made because I live in America and feel I should support its economy. If I lived in Italy I would buy Italian. If those living within a country will not support their own economy then who will? The last truck I purchased was in 2000. While shopping around I would ask the dealer where the truck was made. Almost all of the Dodges I looked at were made in Mexico. I did not buy the Dodge. I hope I am not giving the wrong impression about my feelings toward the Chinese people. I am just trying to get the facts so as not to give out bad information.

Maybe this will get things back on track since we are supposed to be talking about the economy. I saw on the History Channel a program about how coins and paper money are minted here in the U.S.A. The last 10 to 15 minutes were concentrated on counterfeiting. One of the biggest threats to our economy, according to the program, is from foreign governments funding counterfeiting. China was one of those mentioned.

Hello The Mechanic:

Firstly, I apologise for saying to you something which should have been posted to another. I was getting tired and trying to 'cut corners'!

I agree with all you say in this post. I live (mostly) in the UK, and I try and buy British. Trouble is, being an island, and a not very large one at that, virtually all product are imported. Our crazy laws, rules and regs', allow someone to get a product made in China, India, ........anywhere to have (and I am guessing here so no one jump on me k?) and have 98% foreign made item/s with, just 2% UK made parts, and often if the item is small, that 'UK made part is the label!

I too am not against any country per se, but these rules are what has come about by our ministers going to each country and 'negotiating on the percentage. It makes me sick and so bloody angry. Still, I bet those ministers got a nice back hander, like a holiday out of it.

Hello Guest,

you seem to have a lot to say. Why not join CR4? We are really kind to individuals sometimes!

Firstly, and I am being honest and tough here, before you come on CR4, and do so without any reference to a name, and start throwing figures around........ get them corrects!

You are way out with your 'estimate' of the Chinese Population. I know you did not reply to me but, if you take a little time to read one or two of my last posts, you will see I mentioned China as having two thirds the population of the rest of the World put together and at lest 10 times the US total population. I may be a little out with the exact population vis a vie China and the US, with, if anything China having more as a %.

I think you completely missed the point of that particular post where I mention the Populations.

The US and most if not all the 'western world' are 'free countries'. China, IS NOT! So it can and I have read and seen this on TV and on the WEB, close down whole Towns and areas to dedicate those people to doing a particular job, Whether that be farming or industry based matters not. The fact is they do it! Have seen all the support Totalitarian Countries give to their Regimes? Rubbish! That support is very carefully organised and only happens when there is any TV or press from the 'West' around. The number of people involves with 'waiving the flags and singing is easily enough to close whole Towns down. We are not talking 'a few hundred' here we are talking thousands, and on the big rallies where they get the 'War' Machines out tens to hundreds of thousands line the route hundreds deep.

I suggest you go and firstly join so we can see who you are, and secondly, do considerably more research before 'quoting' anything. As a Guest you can come on and say what the hell you like with no come-back. As a Member, things are a little more diplomatic and organised and friendly.

Try it And bye the way, despite what 'tone' this was written in, I did not mean to insult you or anyone else. Though of course, I have no way of seeing which 'guest' says this or that!

Take care........AND JOIN, IT IS GREAT!

They're trough should be surveyed...

I thought I would share a flip side to all of this. Since the housing market has tanked in the US in the last 12months this has been the first time in my adult life that I have been able to afford a house with my 'average american income'. So as people are getting shafted because of biting more than they could chew or being preyed upon by lenders or just not reading the fine print or just getting unlucky or speculating poorly. People like me are able to move into a market that for the last 15 years has been unattainable for a single 'average' income. I also am fortunate that I am absolutely totally un-invested in any type of 401k or stock investments so really this has little effect on me. I am still able to get credit for a house, for a car, because I only take what I can afford. I wish I had more money saved up because besides buying a house I would also invest in solid yet cheap stocks that in 3 years will rebound and in 10 the world economy will be peaking again.

I am mostly against all these bailout plans and gov't intervention with business' that weren't managed well enough or made poor decisions to weather these storms. If they can not survive others will take their place and be smarter and better equiped to handle future situations like this. No one hears about the business' that are flourishing in this economy, Bank of America for one. But they made the decision 8 years ago to not get into the sub-prime market that was pushed heavily from the gov't on down over the last 10years.

For those of us that are suffering I feel for you and hope things turn around sooner than later. I do not mean to belittle anyone's situation; a lot of our current world problems are the fault of a relative few number of people at the top. Maybe this current state will teach atleast us Americans to save money instead of run up credit... but I doubt it.

The truly spectacular achievement of the financial melt down is that one of the major causative factors was that Insurance companies were securing unsecured loans on behalf of finance companies that gave out these loans. So that is what the world of High finance is all about ?

Unsubscribing.

Hello JohnDG:

Can I ask why you are 'unsubscribing'? I assume you mean from this thread?

Take care.....