Recreate big bang?

Perhaps you haven't been keeping up on your reading. The latest theory is that the "big bang" was just another "bounce" in a series of "bounces". That is to say that the event we refer to as the big bang was not the first, after all.

The problem is that no one can explain everything. If they could they could tell you all about intelligent life elsewhere. We must strive to keep an open mind about all things else your ego will expand beyond the extents of the universe. What a waste of intelligence that would be.

Remember it was only recently decided (within the last couple of hundred years) that the earth was not the center of the universe. And physics as defined by Sir Issac Newton is undergoing substantial revision as we speak.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, we are agents of free will.

2. Yes, we tend to be delusional at times. Sometimes for thousands of years.

And lastly, synaptic impulses are, in fact, the results of some action or perceived action, whether it is real or imagined. We tend to react to our environment based on "feelings" at the moment rather than by logic and reasoning. Intelligence, in part, is knowing the difference between real and not real. And sometimes that is difficult because so much of what we know is based on a perspective which may itself be flawed.

My advice is, "don't get your shorts into a knot". Sit back and relax and let the arguments fly. Logic and proof will prevail, but probably not within our life time.

Your answer does not follow a logical route. Basically: Is there such a thng as an independent action, an action that was not precipitated bya prior action? If so, please give an example.If you cannot give an example of such action, then all actions are dependent on prior actions, and the results of a chain of actions are predictable.

Consider a single line of dominoes:When we knock over the first one, it is very predictable which ones will fall next. A very simple example.Add many forks and it becomes more complicated.Add a thousand forks,a million, and the plot thickens.

If the chain becomes too forked and complicated for us to analyse, we call it chaotic, or random, when, really, it is not.All movements of water vapor molecules within a cloud are the result of a force acting on them, and this force is in turn induced or created by other actions or forces, all the way back to the first dominoe.

That being the case, all actions are dependent on prior actions, ad naseum.The final analysis:The Bhudists had it right:We are one with everything. and a correlary:We are connected with everything.

The "Bounce" theory also yields to the same analysis of action-reaction-action.

Thanks for the advice on the shorts, however, I feel much more comfortable now, I won't have to have hemmroid surgery after all.

Dear Guest,

You have my sympathy for your hemorrhoids.

The collapse and re-expansion (a.k.a. big bang) of the universe is like a "bounce" although the elasticity is somewhat in question. You did ask for an example, after all.

And, in your example, you failed to explain how the dominoes managed to be setup prior to knocking down the first domino. Are you suggesting that order can spring out of chaos or entropy, at random? If so, how long will it remain in that state and how would you know when it had achieved this state. Not to mention, questions like "How long would it last?" and, "Where would it end?" So, if "the results of a chain of actions are predictable" as you suggest, then the answer to my last two question would be obvious and attainable. Does this meet your standards for logic?

There have been several interesting books and movies written on the subject of Chaos but none are based on logic, only randomness. Perhaps because they can't answer the question of "How long would it last?" or "Where will it end?" either. At best it is only speculation, not science.

The problem is that your action-reaction theory is based on a very limited viewpoint. That is to say that you can not predict the exact previous state of some system any more than you could stand on the freeway and discern the point of origin of every automobile or truck on the road as they pass you by. But surely they had to exist before you observed them and they came from somewhere! And they are surely going to go somewhere, but how can you predict their destination without interference? And if you interfere can you be sure you will not alter their destination or arrival time? Surely those vehicles did not always exist, but the matter from which they were made has been around since it was formed deep inside a sun that eventually went supernova and distributed all of its newly formed heavy elements out into space. How far back did you want to go?

Part of the problem in your argument is that time is involved. How can you be sure that your concept of time is really accurate? You might be surprised when you come to realize that time is not a universal constant when motion is involved in the observation. If it is, then perhaps you could explain how the warping of time causes gravity? I'd like to hear or read that explanation, if you would be so kind.

No hard feelings, please. I just want you to realize that there are a lot more theories than their are explanations. The proofs are just becoming more complicated.

Can chaos spring from order? IF the universe expands and contracts, is it not like runing a video backwards,with all actions reversed, when it contracts.

Have you ever seen the experiment with 2 cylinders, one inside of the other? The outer cylinder is clear, and the space between is filled with glycerin.

A hypodermic needle is used to inject a line of ink vertically in the glycerin.

The inner cylinder is rotated, and after 3 revolutions, the line ink completely disappears.

Now turn the inner cylinder in reverse direction 3 revolutions, and the line reappears.

The main point I am making is, in my opinion, there is no such thing as chaos:only actions that are too complicated for us to analyse.All motion has a source,which at one time, was very simple.As we increase our knowledge, things that were once considered chaotic will become more obvious.

A view of New York City from altitude at noon appears to be chaotic,with little ant-people scurrying everywhere. Yet every person is moving with a purpose, and are motivated by individual purpose.Likewise with other chaotic systems.

Of course, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Perhaps the problem we have with your presentation is that the "action and reaction equal and opposite" is a Newtonian Law while the onset of the Big bang - I think - does not abide that Law being better described with Quantum Statistics - then, of course, an Astrophysicists knows this better than I do, and so I could be wrong.

Entropy (or perhaps chaos) is the rule. All things that are placed in order are eventually displaced by outside influences. The time frame depends on the ability to resist those influences.

If the universe were to contract, it is under no obligation to follow any pattern set out by the expansion. I have seen the demonstration of the ink in the cylinders of glycerin. The disappearance is an illusion. The same effect does not work with water or most any other fluid, so there is no rule that can be applied and the effect is not universal. Just like the problem of reversing the mixing of ingredients of a recipe. The only thing that can be done in most cases is to compensate. But special cases will always be available if they can just be found. Those often lead to profits for the person who discovers it, but more often to those who follow the explorer.

I am happy to see that you seem to have an appreciation for the idea of applying complex mathematics to explain those things that seem chaotic. As you increase your knowledge of advances in mathematics you may come to realize my point of view. It is a very difficult task to jump into a complicated system and make sense of it. But a new form of math (fractal analysis) is finally being explored with amazing realizations that were thought to be impossible to explain. Fractal analysis is meeting many of the conventional resistances that have confronted other advances in science, but the new math yields the most correct answers of any previously attempted and that makes it hard to reject.

Seek and you will discover. Hide and you will become obsolete.

You state: "All things that are placed in order are eventually displaced by outside influences."

Please describe these "outside" influences, and please give an example of an independent action or force.That is,one that is not a biproduct or result of another preceeding action..Wind is a product or result of pressure differential, which is the product of moisture ,which are the product of heat,gravity, and a host of other factors.Too many to analyse, but not random, or chaotic, but purposeful, and resultant.

I still tend to thing of chaos as merely too complicated to analyse with current techniques, a jumping off point at which analysis is abandoned due to the complexity,so, to save face,scientists create the term choas,kind of like infinite.

If you kick up dust with your foot,in a vacuum, and have a super-high speed, very high resolution camera, and film the event,from very close distance, you will be able to analyse every grain of sand or every dust mote and the individual force that set it into motion, and to predict the trajectory of them individually or as a group, with sufficient computing power.I chose a vacuum to eliminate a host of other variables too complicated to analyse for this example.

A nuclear explosin begins with one collision,and branches from there.

Every motion has a "family tree" of sorts.

If a person takes his own personal family tree back 20 generations,there are over a million branches.At some point there are overlapping branches, because there are billions of people in the world,each with billions of branches in their family tree,each connected at some point, and each traceable to a common point of origin.And the point reduces to two.

Now look at all of the innumerable motions in the universe.Impossible with current technology to analyse,yet there is a starting point; a primal duality of action., an "Adam and Eve" of motion

IMHO, 'course, I could be wrong.

The purpose of the glycerin is to slow down the time element.In another liquid, the processes are too fast for easy observation.If the glycerin were left for a few years, the ink may dissipate.The dispersal of the ink is not an illusion, it is merely stretched out in time, and we are dealing with a very observable process.If all matter and energy was once compressed into a spaceless timeless singularity,then our universe is merely an exploded view of the singularity,much as inflating a balloon enlarges anything written on it's surface.We were once part of the singularity,and a long chain of events has occured to enable the universe to look at itself thru our eyes and to attempt to understand it.And it looks at itself from untold trillions of perspectives,every insect,plant, and animal each have a different perspective on reality and the universe.All together,it is still not a complete picture.Our knowledge flows into and out of a massive river that grows continously as all life forms contribute to it.I simply hope for a small trickle of wisdom,for wisdom surpasses mere knowledge, for wisdom shows how to properly apply that knowledge.

I used the dominoes as an analogy,not as a fact.The point is, a simple process can very easily become so complicated that we cannot follow it, and we call it chaotic, or random.The border between chaos and logic is a mental one, not a physical one.

Weather was once thought to be totally chaotic,but modern advances have resolved some, but not all of the varialbles that we once thought were chaos.There is still much to learn, and as we do, we will nibble away at chaos and digest it into logic.

I am saying that nothing happens without a "reason" , for lack of a better word.Not even the dust mote in the sunbeam.From sufficient distance, our planet is that dust mote,yet we know the controlling factors of our orbit and rotation.

Everything that is in motion was put into motion by something else, all the way back to the "Big Bounce" or Bang or whatever the theory de jour is.

The real question is "What was the originating action".

What made the Bounce or Bang; the original prime movement?

As you say, who set up the dominoes?

Science can never explain that.Theologians and philosophers can.

IMHO

The dominoes made a very appropriate analogy. And I agree that we tend to describe a lot of things as chaotic due to ignorance. But consider what happens when you stir a teaspoon of sugar into your tea. Can you locate the molecules of sugar? Surely this mixture is somewhat chaotic. Motion leads to changes in distribution and while stirring the tea is a symple physical action, it leads to a highly complex series of microevents from which there is little evidence after a short while. So, while we may be mentally aware of the action, we have surely crossed the border into chaos as to the location of the molecules of sugar.

Now, I could recover the sugar if I evaporated the tea but it would be very difficult to separate from the other constituents dissolved in the mix. Chaos implies that we can never quite get back to the exact starting point. But it does not mean that we can't approximate it. Consequently we have theories that exist without proofs. And in some cases we understand the reasons, but there are many opportunities for those who can eventually reach a little farther than we can at the present.

So, in the future the scientist may in fact be able to explain things that we fail to understand at the present. We have seen many examples of that over the last couple of hundred years. But the theologians and philosophers tend to spout the same old nonsense over time, sticking to their beliefs, and infrequently making any significant advances because it disturbs their comfort zone and opens them up to critique which they refuse to acknowledge. Kind of a cowardly and closed minded reaction.

The scientific community is also guilty of protecting the status quo.The Brontasaurus has had the wrong head for many years,because no none would challenge the reputation of the person that put it there.

The Great Sphinx shows signs of water erosion, not wind erosion, but Egyptian history only goes back 5000 years or so, and the earliest water could have been present in sufficient quantity to cause such erosion is 10,000 years.Anyone that challenges the obviously erroneous wind erosion theory is ridiculed.

Einstein was so ridiculed for his "Cosmological constant" that he said that it was his greatest mistake, and recanted.Now we see that he was right,with the expanding,accellerating universe.A comfort zone is just the same no matter where.

People of like minds flock together, to feel comfortable,likewise with many other species.

Every discipline has its comfort zone.It is a natural human trait that we like to believe we are right in our opinions.Of others, of ourselves, of the world.

Your example of dissolving sugar chaos will yield to the "family tree of events" I desrcribed,even though it is not possible at this time to analyse all branches of the tree due to complexity and the limited abilities of present technology.

If you seek the truth, you must challenge all that is written.It requires courage,and is often considered heresy.

IMHO, and as always, I could be wrong.

Please explain "random". Do you mean in no "discernable" or predictable order, with every event totally independent of prior events, and all future events unaffected by present events? Please give one example of a totally independent event or action,uninfuenced by any external or internal forces or effects.

I look forward to enlightenment by your ideas.

No one can stand beside a freeway and predict the origin of any car coming by,because the information is limited from that perspective.With enough information, a particluar vehicle could be traced to it's origin,back to the assembly line,to the molten metal of it's parts,back to the raw ore,to the formation of the elements in a super nova explosion,etc.back to the Big Bang.Even the plastic and glass components would merge at a common point in the "event tree"

The problem is one of information.The more information available, the furthur an action can be traced backwards.To be unable to process that information is not proof that the actions are "random" or chaotic, or without preceeding actions.We simply put it into a category that has a title that implies:"Impossible to trace any furthur" and leave it at that.

"Beyond here there be dragons" is an ancient map warning, but the modern day equivalent is "Chaos" and "Random"

Never give up.

As I read your article I kept thinking what could be the opposite of a Big Bang, a big sink of some sort may be? But what would be the right word to describe such sucking in of matter and energy through a singularity? Then, of course, what would be the corresponding name/description of the big sink in the context of the "Bounces"?

Just wondering that's all, or should I say trying to be philosophically in synch with this captivating thought of yours.

How about a black hole containing all the mass of the universe?When all of the black holes have merged into one, when the last molecule, the last photon, the last subatomic particle is sucked down the drain, critical mass is achieved, and the whole thing becomes unstable and "Bang!" it starts all over again. It might take trillions of years before the last far-flung bit of the "original" "Big bang" is pulled into the singularity, but it will signal a new beginning, not the end.

So the Bang is the instantaneous opposite reaction to the Black holes' implosion, and the instantaneous reaction that is the opposite of the Bang is ?

Carl Sagan said it very well:

"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, first you have to create a universe"