Wind Turbine Experiences

I travel to The Netherlands fairly often, and there are huge, new, wind turbines everywhere. From my rooftop hotel room in Amsterdam, on a clear day I can see 50 or 60 of them. Many are located in parking lots of company's.

I also have friends that live to the north of Amsterdam, and there's one about a 1/4 mile from their house. They don't have any problem with it at all, and it didn't bother me one bit, even though I slept there a few nights. Yes, I could hear it at times, but I didn't really find it unpleasant at all.

I know there are other opinions, and the sound bothers some people, but it didn't bother me.

We have a house in Hendricks, Mn, which is just north of one of the largest wind farms in the US, along the Buffalo Ridge.

"Yes, I could hear it at times" surprises me. I've been far closer than that without hearing anything. When standing directly beneath a 200 foot high turbine all you hear is a very slight hum, from the gear train, and a just audible whoosh as the blade passes overhead.

Their shear size could put some people off, and there is the issue of bird mortality.

Each turbine requires a maintenance road as well.

BTW, the optimum wind speed for these monsters is around 11 MPH.

People who live near them are experiencing some problems with the blink rate. The sun light flashes off the blades or is blocked by the blades as they spin. They effect in homes is causing some older people dizziness or hypontic effect of the bliinking.

Hi...in the gear train the source noize level is usually not more than 65db. The canopy is always properly sound protected so hardly any machine noize can be heard on the ground. However, the swoosh of the blades cutting the wind can be heard when standing close to the tower on a day with a good wind.

Apart from these the other disadvantages are looks, your skyline will change. Electric transmission lines and power transformers will be visible from 400m distance. The transformers etc should be cordened off for security reasons.

Otherwise, there is nothing else more objectionable about these white monsters. Bye the bye, just calculate the energy spent in manufacturing & putting up these turbines. I hope it is less than the energy they eventually are going to produce!!!

When scaled up to commercial output levels, wind turbine generation farms are very cost effective. In West Texas, there are so many of them that the grid is not up to carrying the excess energy very far east. As such, Exxon and Valero and a number of other former capped deep-well oil lease holders are making a record killing on the excess wholesale price at around 3 cents a kilowatt, mostly sold as surplus energy at night time when there is otherwise just too much juice for the grid to handle; making it possible for better than break even by the price of oil above $35.00 (estimated) USD per barrel.

Wind turbine shadows are cast right over many pump-jacks and it is no accident that a great deal of the capitol to build them came from their end users, the oil conglomerates; starting back when George Bush was the "good oil boy" Governor of Texas. ("Ole" means oil in Texan doancha know?).

Burying the high tension lines is the inter-farm transmission line method of choice it would seem. Buried lines means less local induced wind turbulence and better esthetic's one assumes. The profit margin HAS to be substantial for commercial utilities to pay those sort of up front costs at the get-go.

The turbines are pretty benign - some of the required infrastructure can pinch a little. They often require new power lines which cause a lot of problems across farm land. They also need supplemental power plants to supply power when the wind isn't blowing - usually natural gas, but possibly coal.

Harden yourself for the sight of splashed raptors - some endangered.

Nice tax break for someone though.

They also need supplemental power plants to supply power when the wind isn't blowing...

We don't have those occasion's at turbine height. We have low winds 8mph - 12mph and normal 15mph - 24mph and high 25mph - 55mph. Yes when storms pass winds can increase to 56mph - 110mph.

Checkout this bird kill resource http://www.towerkill.com

Hi,

noise into our ears,

killing birds by direct hit,

killing bats by sudden low pressure.

400m is ok.

Protect your investment against the unlikely but coming next very big storm - insurance will cover this?

There have been a small number of catastrophic failures: rupture of blades with subsequent failure of mast, rupture of concrete structure that connected to tower to ground.

No earthquake until now.

RHABE

Zoning is going to be a big problem in the USA until people can't afford to heat their homes or cool them in summer. Then the small wind mills will be accepted like they are around the wolrd.

Large turbine need room though. Some catch fire and fall to the ground in peices.

Thanks for the comments. Our council has stayed the project until they can get more information and review the issues further.

I guess the biggest issue is stray voltage. Anyone familiar with this issue?

You Can research the 'stray voltage issue' through links like this.

In general it is a specific farm animal (usually dairy, but not exclusive to cows) issue involving 10v or less.

Grounding (earthing) detail becomes very important in this context, since the usual suspect is deteriorating ground bond connections that result in a Neutral to Earth voltage situation that can affect a variety of animals.

Thank god I don't get milked regularly with electrically equipped devices.

Remember this term - "CADWELD". A very effective means of insuring a positive ground bond.

Here is the CADWELD link. The Erico folks would probably be happy to cover all of your information needs on the subject of stray voltages.

Hope this is of value in your endeavor.

Before you spend money please read the following:

The whole truth about wind turbines is never told by lobbyists and governments.

How could the very weak and extremely unreliable initial energy source of a wind turbine ever produce a steady power of any significance?

Please think!

And read: "Wind energy- the whole truth" at: http://www.windenergy-the-truth.com/

The http://www.youtube.com/philbloomstein video was a good reference link, thanks. After years of agonization over this source of green energy I've found a number of not often looked at variables one doesn't see at first blush. Knowing your wind zone rating is a key thing to understand. Stiff winds 25% of the time is NOT a good thing. But that can be the misleading impression while one is actually in a wind zone one which is a rating based on consistency as well as duration average hours and day and nightime offset (stronger at night almost always)...

By contrast the cap rock country of east Texas windy as it is reported to be is actually a wind zone three; plenty good enough to use its over built capacity with no state wide electric grid to pump jack millions of formerly too deep oil out of the ground, though... At 3 cents a kilowatt hour surplus rate. Only the Texas Panhandle has a well deserved wind zone four rating in this state T. Boone Pickens is leasing lots by the bushel barrel full to build turbines there, as a result... And got a sweetheart deal with the PUC by gaining a right of public domain to build electric lines to the DFW area. He's gonna drill water wells too, into the Oglala Aquifer and water lines to parallel the power lines to get power for his boost pumps. All wind turbine powered.

Where we are, in northeast Texas is a wind zone 2 and that, by and large is below the threshold for making a classic tower mounted wind turbine cost effective. Having said that we still favor having one since our zoning set back rules make a solar array out of the question. To move it back from the set back line would put them under shade trees on the south and west. Then there IS the problem of turbulence caused by buildings and trees. As a result we are making plans to put up a vertical axis wind turbine along the peak of our home; HAWT' handles building apex sloped wind (and parapit roofed wind) problems without a hiccup if the bottom of the horizontal vanes are elevated at least one turbine diameter above the apex or the recommended hight for a fireplace smoke stack on flat rooves. AND THEY ARE QUIET (about 68 db in a 28 mph wind). Last but not least; while we would prefer a solar set-up it is not in the cards. But by inserting our own free energy production generator on our home/into the grid - we reduce the inner urban grid demand for energy and the need for more power lines and their source pollution, too.

Payback for a grid connect controller and generator are about 9 years which is just slightly longer than a properly sized home mounted solar array of equal max capacity... because it won't make as much juice per year as a solar array would have done. Because it turns not faster than 280 RPM and dumps energy at storm wind speeds instead of over speeding, it is human being, prowling pussycat and raptor safe, as well. You might research this relative newcomer on the wind turbine scene. It is seen being mounted on the top of many tall and not so tall city buildings recently. You can make a science demo HAWT by going to the back lot of any heating and air conditioning shop and getting their permission to scavenge a couple or three blower free wheels and mounting those on shaft, complete with belt drives for an alternator, just for fun and to understand the problems. Good Luck to you.

P.S., Here's an interesting site featuring a parasitic horizontal axis wind turbine, just to get your idea machine in gear: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.archinect.com/images/uploads/turbine_freeway_structure_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.archinect.com/schoolblog/entry.php%3Fid%3D55756_0_39_0_C&h=300&w=400&sz=89&tbnid=d4vh4jbA1tx3dM::&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHorizontal%2Baxis%2Bwind%2Bturbine&hl=en&usg=__i-_ldnX67NXMCviFA38iBYDr4qk=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1

you are a fountain of information.. and cool links. GA

To Guest: Yes, it can and it is doing so.

It is worth taking a look at the overall picture. The whole truth would include an analysis of the entire power situation and ALL of the risks and benefits of all types of energy sources used for power generation and storage. There are pluses and minus with all choices. Probably, everyone agrees that the solution to supplying the planet with 100% carbon free/carbon neutral energy will not be a single solution and that we are not likely to get there any time soon.

The single most important thing we can do today is by implementing energy efficiency improvements in all areas including changing our daily habits. We would not need 30 percent of the energy that we currently use. That is a huge number that could eliminate the need for adding a lot of watts of power generation over the next 10 years.

Consider that an advantage of an interconnected grid system is that not all windmills stop or start turning at the same time, which means that power supplied by wind in a distributed system is not as intermittent as one might at first guess.

By the way, power plants trip off line for various reasons from time to time without blackouts occurring. Our local coal power generation facility of 50 MW has done that, unscheduled, at least 5 times in the last year without a single blackout occurring as a result.

This same power plant is connected in the local grid with the Altamont Pass wind turbine farm, one of the world's largest. The challenges of handling the variation in wind power are met by the system without blackouts.

The Tehachapi Wind Farm in southern CA produces 800,000,000 kWh per year, which dwarfs the power that the Netherlands is said to require annually at 13,000,000 kWh according to the link you supplied.

http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/CA4977/

Have you looked at Vehicle to Grid Technology? When there are a lot of V2G cars connected to the grid it would be very easy to snag a large amount of power rather quickly to deal with grid fluctuations by taking a tiny bit from each of the connected cars' batteries.

Solar power does not supply a constant amount of energy either. Does that mean that we shouldn't use it?

Even hydro power is not constantly available in the same amounts from season to season or year to year in some locations. In others it can be used as a peaker power plant. Check out the Oroville-Thermalito Generation Pumping Plant in Northern California. It releases a 24 hour supply of water during the peak energy using hours of the day and then shuts down until the next day. Energy including that generated from wind that is cheap when generated at night is sometimes used to pump water back up into the reservoir for rerelease the next day at peak times of need.

Everyone knows that wind power is not the total solution. Folks involved in the clean energy generation movement realize that the solution will have to be an integrated one using many types of clean energy generation of which ground based, off shore based and coming soon high altitude wind power (capacity factors of 50-80%) are part.

Speaking further of capacity factors, here are the figures for the USA in 2007

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epata6.html

Coal 73.6%

Petroleum 13.4%

Natural Gas Combined Cycle 42%

Natural Gas Other 11.4%

Nuclear 91.8%

Hydro conventional 36.3%

Other renewables average 40% this includes wind and solar. Capacity factors for wind have been increasing with the development of better turbine designs.

Average All energy sources 48.7%

By the way, there is no such thing as a clean coal power plant, though the media in hired by the coal lobby would like you to believe that. As much as I would like to see coal power go away, it is not going to go away in my lifetime. I hope that I live to see the day when burning coal becomes as clean as energy produced by the wind. As there are so many different types of emissions by coal burning facilities, I sincerely doubt that we will ever see zero emissions.

Other food for thought burning biomass releases CO2 into the air. Folks seem willing to accept that this is a carbon neutral process in that no more is released back to the air than was taken out of the air by the plant material. We have to do something with agricultural waste. Perhaps someone will come up with an even better answer.

Recently a 400' turbine was put into operation 1000' from our home. I have posted some videos on youtube that you may helpful in understanding the impact. http://www.youtube.com/philbloomstein

We are proponents of wind energy. However this project was poorly planned. A few home owners including ourselves were caught in the middle of small town politics and the wind industries often overly optimistic predictions of the turbines effects on abutters.

I can tell you first person turbines should be at least 3000' from existing dwellings.

This type of input is the most valuable post to date, in that it directly addresses the intent of the questioner. This is real time perspective, from actual experience as requested, and addresses an issue objectively that would not be otherwise available in any product detail. The 'flicker' element alone was eye opening.

I looked further at sites of organizations that totally oppose wind farms and found them somewhat subjective in that they expressed opinions that were usually not from their own experience, but from conjecture and film overlay projection.

Your input about the importance of siting considerations not normally thought of will go a long way toward a successful and pleasing project for this small town.

Addison, Texas has let bids for water tower powered by wind turbines. I've started a new thread dedicated to improvements on their out of the start gate design concept. Here is a link to that thread.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/35864

Here are a Number of links to an overview of Wind Turbine Issues
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/35864#4

One could arguably label me a wind turbine maven. Below are posts that address pro's and con's for this burgeoning electric generation industry. Not all of what are posted are pro-wind turbine in nature. Like all alternative energy industries, the engineering and the economic consequences of wind turbines and wind farms are still just coming into the light.

Their environment impacts, once focused on bird hazard potential, are now expanded to human health issues, as well. As a result, I have dropped tower mounted turbines from my quiver as an urbane area alternative electric generation solution and now favor low speed, high torque vertical or horizontal, high aspect ratio slat blade types (similar to blower wheels in air conditioning systems) because they are quiet and can handle structurally induced turbulence; unless they are miles and miles from everyday view and hearing.

R.E., Wind Turbine Experiences http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/30077
Comment #11 Wind turbine visual shuttering problems and down wind sounds Reference video link: http://www.youtube.com/philbloomstein
The YouTuber's recommendation is minimum 3,000 feet (3/5ths of a mile) minimum set back. No recommendation for visual shuttering problems set back. One would assume that one should have some sort of structure or vegetation block their view of turbine shadows especially at sun up and sun down when their shadows can reach quite far.

According to the thread named "Are Wind Turbines Hazardous to Your Health?" Industrial wind machines may cause ringing in the ears (tinnitus). r.e., http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/8351

In the thread: Windmill on a Kite http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/33795#21 I made the point that there are no standards that rate the viability of electric power from wind farms. Distance to consumer markets is also a factor that has been successfully exploited by the oil industry in Texas taking advantage of surplus electric energy during night time operations when demand is down but the wind is constantly stronger in their wind zones 3 and 4 neck of the woods; all made possible by the subsidization process (Taxes which guarantee the wind farms make money for their investors, the oil business makes millions in windfall profits and the tax payers remain clueless that we've have been ripped off with the blessings of the public utility commission by their tacit silence on this thorny issue.).

Addison, Texas has let bids for water tower powered by wind turbines. Yesterday I started a new thread dedicated to improvements on their out of the start gate design concept. I believe that great idea could stand some improvements such as installing water turbine generators at its base, to scavenge electric energy when the water is flowing back into the city water system (An impeller located inside the discharge caisson, with an offset gear and shaft out the side of the caisson coupled to a infinite speed transmission and a gen-set is what I mean); and a horizontal generator powered by low speed, high torque (quiet) vanes rotating around the entire outside of the wine-glass goblet shaped water storage tank. It could be greenest and the most Avant Gard water tower on earth. Here is a link to that thread.
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/35864

Last but not least, "Windmills on a Kite" solves the problem of tinnitus and shuttering, it would appear: http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/33795

P.S., I haven't the image rendering skills to post a picture of this concept and am hoping that a mutual wind maven, chrisg288, will cobble one together and post it here. hint hint

send me a pm, with your ideas, and I will see what I can do.