How Can I Raise Water 250m By Its Own Power

Can you send the details like what is current amount of water flow rate cubic meter/second. and what is the amout of water you want at 250 meter.

Write on my e-mail

rakesh_semwal@hotmail.com

DEAR BROTHER

I SENT EVERY INFORMATION TO YOU BUT NO RESPONSE. I HOPE YOU ARE ALL HEALTHY AND HAPPY

YOURS

SHEADEHALI

Why not post the information here, as with no idea as to any of the basic parameters except the head required all discussion on this interesting problem has ground to a halt.

I for one would be fascinated to know if we came up with a feasible suggestion that could be put into practice.

hi dear friend

the land is located on the top of the hill about 250 m high .the flowing river is in the bottom below. no vihcle road are available to reach the water. the land is about 30 acres area iam plannong to grow fruit trees in it. in winter there is no problem for watering it but in summer it needs a lot of water to. i studied all types of rams and found the suitable in freen&carter company in England but its very expensive and its heavy to be located near the water with out a lift. on the other hand i found the water high lifters but they need a high falling to work.hoping we can find the best way to raise water with you nice help

Sounds to me that you need to put pen to paper and work out your exact water requirements. The critical figure is how much storage you have available at the top and how long between rains. Your pumping system can run all the year around building up a supply for use in summer so given sufficient storage and, assuming a simplistic figure like half the year rains and the other half doesn't, your pump flow rate can be 50% of your requirements.

The thing with this sort of exercise is that the devils in the detail. My personal feeling is that you'd be better off putting effort into storage on the top of the hill and filling it with rain water through winter. I think 250m is simply too high to achieve the volume of water that your venture is going to require without spending a lot of money on a elaborate system.

A dam scooped out to hold a couple of thousand cubic metres of water is not a major construction if you've got access to machinery and then your water problems are over.

Alternatively a 20,000 gallon concrete tank can be built by hand given enough patience and cement. A roof over it made of old tin to expand the catchment and you'll have water enough for drip irrigation.

I just can't see the pump idea as being practical. Just the cost of a suitable transfer pipe will be quite significant as there's considerable pressure at the bottom, aprox' 2500 kpa or 350 psi. That's just head pressure, not taking into account the back pressure from the pipe which, unless you go big, will be considerable over that distance.

I too have a property with a river at the bottom and I looked at the water 80m down, did the sums and built a dam on the top. The trickle I could get from a ram pump wasn't worth the effort and pipe cost whereas a thousand cubic metre dam took two days with a big excavator and fills from a quite small catchment.

Could you use a water turbine (or paddle wheel if you want it to just be mechanical) to power a screw pump?

Ah, good ole Archimedes does it again....

The best way to raise water by its own power, is to use a Water Ram, which you can find all the info about under the following website....very old reliable technology -- just don't let the device freeze with the water in it!

http://www.riferam.com/pump1.htm

Water Ram is the best bet. You can even use several in series if you start with a big one then reduce in size. Go to antique gas & steam engine shows /flea markets you will see many of them.

Mr Almasri

Ready design is available with me. you dont need any external energy to do it. I am waiting for your email.

rakesh_semwal@hotmail.com

hi dear friend

Thanks for you kind effort to help.can you please send me full information about the best way to raise water as we are talking about.Please tell me the best way ,the shortest and the cheapest.my email is shamla8491@hotmail.com hoping to add me and discuss the matter directly.i will add you to please accept my addition.

yours

shehadeh ali almasri

Someone make a hydraulic pumping device that is powered by water flow and pumps a portion of the water uphill. It is a reciprocating/oscillating affair, it works very well and is compact. I don't remember who makes it but perhaps with those details you could google it. I can also try to find out the source.

Wow!

If the info I found on the internet is correct, and it seems to be, to do it in one step you'll have 2450 kPa pressure (356 lb/in²) pressure at the bottom before you get flow.

If men can make the trek to the water, your best bet would seem to be to generate electricity at the bottom and put in a series of pumps and tanks using the electricity from the bottom to power it.

AHA!!

Run a very insulated pipe and boil it at the bottom - the steam will rise to the top, then you just have to condense it. It's not going to be all that hot at the top, either.

You will have to make sure it doesn't condense on the way up, and there is likely a limit to how high it will rise without turning back into water and blocking a small pipe or running down the inside of a large one.

You'll need a heat source. For faster movement you can make a mechanically driven fan to help the vapour go up.

Try Three

Build a sort of ski lift with buckets and run it from a water wheel at the bottom. It would take a lot of time, but is possible.

Try Four

Build the water wheel - you'll need it for power. Then put two runs of flexible piping up the hill - doesn't have to hold lots of pressure, abs would probably work. Make a rope with 'washers' that fit into the pipe, but not too tightly, every half metre or so and run it up one and down the other. Powered by the water wheel it might be able to lift the water up. The faster it goes the more 'leaky' the washers can be.

I could draw it better than write it, but what the heck. Besides I like the heating idea best. Since people can make the trek, slaves would work, too.

Here is just one page of many that leads to a number of references: http://journeytoforever.org/at_waterpump.html

Dear Sir, With a fall of 2 to 3 metres there are two ways of doing this. The first is to construct a water wheel or turbine which in turn will power a small pump to pump the water to a higher level reservoir. The second is to use a water wheel or turbine to drive a generator. This should produce enough power to drive a pump. I have done this successfully where I was living in Norway 20years ago, it produced enough power to provide me with water and lighting. The choice of what type of turbine/pump you should use depends on the volume of water per second falling past a given point and how much this varies from season to season. My personal choice would be to go for the water/generator system, but that is up to you. With regards, Spencer I. Mather.

A ram pump is probably the best option as it's simple and doesn't muck about generating elactricity with all the inherent losses and complications. As has been said before a ram pump (or water ram) is simple, reliable, has only one moving part and can pump to great heights. 250m may be pushing it though.

Hi want help you but I need to know what kind of water source you have? What do you mean its own power?

Our experience lifting water at 700ft required an up stream water source of 3 kilometer stretch of 12" ID under water pipes anchored in the river bed at 2 meter current.

ANDYnh2

250 M is a lot of head with pipe losses to overcome with a screw pump or a Ram pump. For irrigation you'll likely want a large volume of water over a relatively short period, typically in the order of 500 gpm. Even at these rates you'd only be able to irrigate 3-inches of water over 3 acres each working day. A reasonable common simple method is diesel engine driving a series of centrifugal pumps. You would need about 150 hp from the motor. you could use a water wheel to generate the horsepower and direct mechanical drive to the pumps. You would have nearly 400 psi of pressure at the outlet of the pump to get nearly 40 psi at the field. You will need some heavy steel pipe to carry this pressure.

Alternately, stage storage tanks and pumps at intervals use a water wheel/electric generator or diesel motors, to keep the pressure more reasonable. Place the pumping stations about every 100 meters vertical or less, and you could use piping rated up to op pressure of 150 psi, e.g. C900. This is where electricity would not be bad to generate, since you could underground the power cable along with the water pipeline, and where the water goes the power to pump it goes.

Many of you have suggested elaborate solutions, which are all well and good, but I think you have ignored a primary parameter:

"There is no way to put a motor pump their as there is no road. Only men can reach the water."

So let us assume that any mechanical device suggested must be small, lightweight and easily carried. Also, considering the locality mentioned and the nature of the request, he is not likely to be able to build anything very complex.

My solution would be a paddlewheel that can be brought in pieces (backpack) and assembled in place. Depending on the nature of the water source and its flow rate, if it is as described, a waterfall of about 2-3 meters, the wheel will turn at various speeds and torques. If the flow rate is rather generous, perhaps from a swiftly flowing mountain stream and it can be funneled into a run above the wheel, the wheel should spin very quickly. On the other hand, a trickle from a still pool, even if falling 2-3 meters, will not do very much at all.

Assuming it is the former, and we have a good water source, placing the wheel at the bottom of the fall will take the most advantage of the kinetic energy of the moving water. Depending on speed, the wheel can be coupled directly to a simple centrifugal pump, or use a gear box between to acheive the correct speed range. Then a hose or pipe can be attached between the input of the pump and the source of the irrigation water, presumably the same stream or pool which the waterfall flows into.

Will that overcome the head pressure of 250m (820 ft.) ? Hard to say without knowing how much energy is available and can be harnessed from the waterfall. Even if you get flow at the top, it may only be a trickle.

I am such a jerk!

The answer is relatively simple. (Or maybe I am.) It's capillary action!

You need piping made like a really long electrolytic capacitor. Spiraling the material should work. This would be a truly cool product as it would work anywhere the water doesn't freeze, be zero maintenance if the water was relatively clean and work for free forever. (Well dozens of years, anyway.)

A Hydro ram could be used to lift the water using just the water power. They are not too hard to build, but are limited in height vers volume of water delivered. If a ram filled a tank 1/2 way up the hill, (well within range of the Rams I have built) could you place a windmill at that location to pump the water up the rest of the way? Or stage several small windmill/tanks to complete the height requirment? Not exactly all water powered, but could work if you have wind...

Here is an ancient technology that will accomplish what you need. It has been used for the same task for millenia. You might need more than one because of the height you wish to raise the water.

http://aquamor.tripod.com/Wheel.htm

The wheel could also be used to power a conventional pump which would pump the water up a pipe or aquaduct to the location of your land. It could also power an electric generator if there is sufficient flow.

Good luck!

Has anyone figured the limits of a ram pump? If a ram pump won't do it then a small water wheel driving a gear pump will get the water there but I hope the volume required is not large and is intended to trickle irrigate trees rather than sprinkler 30 acres of pasture!

Of course it depends just how big the river is and how much capital/man power is available to build water wheels. Big water wheel develops a lot of torque which could be attached by a crank to a big piston pump but all that sort of thing is expensive and heavy to carry in.

Several Gravi-Cheks at the source to feed a holding pond that would in turn drive a couple more Grav-Cheks to yet another pond, etc. etc. till you reach your desired height. Of course, the amount of irrigation water will be quite a bit less than what was originally pumped up due to losses to drive the intermediate pumps, but it will work.

Definitely will work but how much water?

This problem breaks down into two different problems. One is how to get water up 250m. This an interesting problem. The second is how to get sufficient water up to irrigate 30 acres of fruit trees through summer. This is a depressing problem.

I believe it's possible to generate compressed air with a ram pump so a big ram pump compressing air and then using the air to run staging stations which break the lift down. Problem is that's it's going to have to be an awfully big ram pump and that's probably going to need a dam to get the required volume of water. It'd be interesting to do the sums as to the work that's required to be done in lifting the required volume of water. Unfortunately the original author of this query is very sparing in the figures he's given us.

Simple rough figures based on a fall of 2.5 m and 100% efficiency say that whatever flow he wants will be 1% of the powering flow. Obviously the efficiency is nothing like 100% so you start to get a very large volume needed to give a usable flow. No doubt a river can provide this but he has to harness this with what he can carry in?!

Probably a big water wheel, carried in in pieces generating electricity running good old fashioned electric staging pumps is actually the most boring but only practical solution as it can be broken down into "carriable" pieces. Not that I'd fancy lugging a generator rotor on my back but it could be done and once you've got electricity......

Probably not enough for 30 acres without a lot of pumps and some significant holding ponds which in itself will be difficult to build without equipment.

The original poster needs to realize that it will take a sizeable investment to irrigate 30 acres no matter what method he decides to use. I hope the crop yield is significant enough for a payoff over a reasonable amount of time.

That was the conclusion I reached (see #23 above somewhere). 30 acres can suck a lot of H2O!

Re: "30 acres can suck a lot of H2O!" ~ One day, you will get a GA for this... because *I* can't help but wonder {and it appears that NOBODY ELSE has}:

How many small farmers downstream from you are going to wind-up paying the price for YOU stealing their irrigation water / livestock drinking water / bathing water, etc?

This tiny stream (apparently) can only provide a certain level of 'support' ... and you just might be trying to over-tax it. [Research this (hike?) and find out.]

If not ~ keep praying on it. The solution will not be easy, and may even require a combination of some of the suggestions above. Or, God might answer your prayers as he did Abram ... and have you move to "easier pastures".

Best wishes ~