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Anonymous Poster

Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

12/23/2008 5:03 PM

I'm in an environment between 85 and 105 degF.

Is there any way to brew beer without boiling and quick chill of the wort?

what extracts can you recommend (with hop flavoring?).

My goal is to make beer without external heat or cold source.

thanks

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#1

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

12/24/2008 7:11 PM

Would be interested in extracting the heat from the environ-air? If that is acceptable to you, then you certainly can do that: Extract the air which will give you both hot air for boiling and cold air for chilling. Now there...

Of course, I take it that what you eman by "external heat source", is a means of heating without the use of the heat of the surrounding air. If not then well the basis of my suggestion is inapplicable to your situation.

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#2

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

12/25/2008 6:11 AM

I have seen a guy dig a hole fill it with saw dust, enough to surround a 50 gal plastic barrel about 2 ft. The heat grom the saw dust provied the cooking for his brew.

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#3

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

12/25/2008 7:03 AM

Sure you could make a beer without boiling the wort.

Use a hopped extract (this will give the bitterness needed) and dry hop during fermentation (for the aroma / bouquet). If the wort is between your temperatures indicated you will still have to cool it to below 78F (70-75 is ideal) before you can pitch the yeast.

By not boiling though you increase the chances for infection and off flavors.

I would not worry about what brands of extracts to use but I would not use a spray dried extract you might have problems getting it to dissolve. In my opinion the yeast is more important. Use a liquid yeast packet.

Do you have a cooler place to ferment? those temps are kind of high even for an ale (60-75F).

ChazL

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

12/25/2008 2:52 PM

A GA for the best answer I have seen while reading from the top, short, accurate and covers all bases. Will be hard to beat!

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#4

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

12/25/2008 7:22 AM

Just a note about the importance of boiling:

Apart from extracting the flavors, boiling also ensures that any wild yeasts or other microorganisms are killed, so that the wort is an 'empty niche' for the proper brewing yeast that you add to it.

Otherwise you could end up with something nasty!

Best of luck.

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#5

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

12/25/2008 12:15 PM

Hello

I have always used beer kits with excellent results when working overseas.That is a perfect temperature to get things going.Just drop in your yeast and sugar and it takes about 3 or 4 days to work down.Could you not just add yeast and let it ferment on its own.

Good luck

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#6

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

12/25/2008 2:43 PM

Well, I finally get to contribute some information on a topic that I know quite a bit about.

The answer will depend upon the quantity of beer that you want to brew (5 gallon batches are typical in the U.S.), whether it will be hopped (a few non-typical beers, such as 'gruit', use various other herbs and spices in place of hops), and whether you are making it with pre-hopped extract which does NOT need to be boiled, versus extract or runnings from mashed grains which requires hopping and therefore DOES need boiling. It also depends on the quality of the beer you want to produce; an inadequate boil will produce inferior beer, although it will be beer and probably drinkable.

With the PRE-hopped extract, you could sanitize your fermenter and utensils, and use bottled water to dilute the contents of the container of extract, stirring long enough and well enough with a spoon to mix them together (it will be harder to do when it is cold), aerate, put in fermenter, pitch your yeast, and let it ferment. I said "bottled" water because most tap water contains chlorine which is ordinarily boiled off, but if you are not boiling then it will ruin your beer.

If you are adding hops to unhopped EXTRACT, then you MUST boil to extract and isomerize the alpha acids, but if you KNOW that the extract was produced by boiling rather than vacuum evaporation (most brewers don't have that info available), then you can shorten your boil _somewhat_ based on the _assumption_ (which you really can't reliably assume) that the previous boiling of the extract was _vigorous_ enough to create sufficient expansion of steam bubbles for the "albumin fraction" to occur. See http://bavarianbrewerytech.com/news/boilhops.htm under the section "Why rolling boil?"

If you are boiling runnings from a mash, then you need a complete boil.

Basically, to make _good_ beer, your wort will need to _vigorously_ boil for half an hour BEFORE you add your hops to complete the albumin fraction and coagulation of proteins, and THEN you would typically boil for another HOUR after hops are added to achieve optimum hop utilization. In other words, 90 minutes of _vigorous_ boiling -- and that takes a LOT of heat.

So, if you are trying to do that with the typical five gallon batch, you would need a pretty MASSIVE heat pump, and I don't think there is any way that you could derive enough heat fast enough for such a boil by burying a container in a bunch of sawdust, as was jokingly (I hope) suggested by 'dadw5boys', unless you mixed in other stuff with the saw dust -- and even then I still have my doubts.

The bottom line is that if you want to make good beer, requiring a good long boil, you can't do it in any _practical_ way without using an external heat source. I use a propane turkey fryer -- the pot is 7.5 gallons which is more than adequate in size for the typical 5-gallon batch. I just don't see any sense in trying to do it in any complicated way trying to use heat pump or sawdust. And regarding the remark about crash cooling, yes, this should be done for a number of reasons that I won't go into.

Cheers, and MERRY CHRISTMAS to all.

Bill Velek

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#8

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

01/23/2009 12:48 PM

thank you all for your comments, particularly billvelek

all I want is to make beer with minimum energy (heating and cooling) and with minimum risk

1) will try hopped flavor extract mixed in with 5 gallon of water (no boil - from tap)

2) short boil small amount of water add hop for aroma (not sure to trust the extract)

3) mix 1) & 2)

4) cool the mix

5) pitch in the yeast (re-hydrated)

6) will see what happens - hope for no contaminates/wild yeast&bacteria

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

01/23/2009 4:10 PM

I just noticed that you said that your environment is 85F to 105F. That is _WAY_ too warm to ferment beer, so untiil you can come up with a way to drop it to at least below 75F, you're beer is likely to contain a lot of fusel alcohols and esters. Esters are not really the problem since your whole approach is likely to produce very substandard beer to begin with; all the esters will do is add a very fruity flavor to your beer. The problem is going to be the fusel alcohols, which usually begin to develope at a noticeable level if you ferment above 75F. Fermenting at 85F is a virtual guarantee that you will have loads of fusels, and approaching 100F it will probably be like turpentine. Seriously, I learned my lesson the hard way by fermenting one year when we were having a bit of trouble with our A.C. and the room was getting up to about 78F. I would develope horrible headaches after drinking just one bottle of beer from that batch -- had to toss it out. Believe me, you can go to any brewing forum and ask any of the experienced brewers, and I'm sure they will tell you that if you're going to be fermenting as hot as you've suggested, then you're just wasting your time and money. Seriously.

The _ideal_ fermentation temp for most ale yeasts is 68F; but I've consistently made pretty good beer at room temps of 72 or 73F; I try to not let it get above that. Be aware that fermentation generates heat, and the more vigorous it is, the more heat will be generated -- and the higher the temp, the more vigorous it will be. So if you ferment at a room temp as low as 85F, you will have a very fast fermentation which could raise the temp perhaps as much as another 3 or 4 degrees. You can help fight all of that by using evaporative cooling; set your fermenter in a tub or pan of cool water and wrap your fermenter with a wet towel that will wick the water from the tub as it evaporates. That should drop the temp a few degrees and perhaps compensate for the heat generated by the fermentation, but I'm warning you that under no circumstances is it going to be worthwhile if you're going to be fermenting in the 80s.

I'll be waiting to hear from the vets from Iraq who made beer in the hot desert in their canteens. ;-)

Cheers.

Bill Velek

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

01/23/2009 6:09 PM

I would have to agree with you completely bill, GA.

This approach is a total waist of time and money. I'm not even sure you could get the extract to dissolve without boiling. I think contamination is highly likely, on several levels. Contaminated wort, contamination from the hops, and contamination from unclean bottling.

And yes, those temps. are way to high. There's a very good reason why traditionally beer was brewed in cooler climates, and wine in warmer places.

So, if your unwilling to do it right, why bother?

Make wine instead, you'll have better luck, maybe, cleanliness is important there too.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

01/24/2009 4:04 AM

Proper hygiene has always been important in producing a safe good tasting product when brewing, whether wine or beer is unimportant.

But as you and several others have posted, temperature DOES play an important role in making sure that no "wild" yeasts come into play and produce "bad spirits".

Every year since 1983 I have made Apple Wine here in Germany, its almost part of the "Staple" diet of this region around Frankfurt a.Main. It has more to do with Cider from a British standpoint than true Wine though......( I won the yearly contest in 1988 and am usually placed in the first 5 of around 14 contestants!)

The friends who use a warm cellar to brew produce the worst wine generally......slow but sure seems to do it better, why should beer be any different? Our brewing cellar is under a garage and not heated at all, even when it gets close to -30°C as it did a few weeks ago!

This is an interesting Blog (for a change!), I will follow further.....

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

01/25/2009 10:16 AM

Bill...........why don't you post your formulas on a topics blog so it doesn't get lost in traffic?

I've been trying pilsner style brewing that has so far been anything but. My wife says the plants like it.

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#13
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Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

01/25/2009 11:19 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by "formulas". And the only reason I posted here -- in 'CR4' -- is because the question was asked here. I already do a lot of posting in forums dedicated specifically to brewing, such as the UseNet group -- rec.crafts.brewing -- and many others. In fact, I formed my own groups about 'brewing equipment' (1,180 members) and 'growing hops' (2,570 members), and I also started a website titled "Learn Science by Brewing Beer", but haven't had the time to finish it. All can be found through my web-portal: www.tinyurl.com/29zr8r

As for brewing pilsners, I've never tried to do one during my 12 years of brewing because of the special refrigeration equipment that is needed for lagers; I presume that you realize that a pilsner is a lager and not an ale. If you don't, then that's probably why your wife is turning your plants into alcoholics.

I'm not designating this post as 'off topic' because I think the original poster could use the resources I've mentioned.

Cheers.

Bill Velek

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#14
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Re: Brewing Beer Without an External Heat Source

01/25/2009 11:43 AM

Hi Bill

...the reason I asked was because this particular lot of Cr4 ers have some interesting ways and means (and contraptions) to get on with getting things done.

I do like the lagers but am at the point where the closest to me must be purchased a fifty mile drive distance.

Otherwise my brews continue to feed the plants (after sitting around for a few months).

Incidentally, I grow my own hops that originally came from the Czech Republic.

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