Central Heating Problem

You could give us a clue..is it a gas boiler? oil? Wood? Anti matter?

(I'm only familiar with Gas fired boilers)

Del

I don't agree that you are off topic, you are spot on!! so I have reduced it by 1.....

uni0808sun; is the proving exhaust fan running? the intake or exhaust pipes may be plugged, is the gas valve in the pilot position , is the gas turned on? caution you may need a service technician. perry

If oil fired and if you ran out of oil, you will need to bleed the pump on the burner. If conditions one and two are true, call an oil burner mechanic.

As others have pointed out, half asked questions often get half answers.

Is this a furnace... space heater... or? Does the ignitor light a pilot light or main burner?

Have you checked your Thermocouple? Because if it goes bad, the valve shuts off your pilot light, at least on mine it does..

Donald

My "experiences" which may or may not be like yours...but might give you some ideas.

In a gas furnace like propane, natural gas, etc mine had a device called a flame sensor. If it didn't detect a flame it would shut down the unit. I've had ones which looked like a spark plug and I've had ones which looked somewhat like an ignitor with two long wires and some with only one wire sticking out. Usually they are placed right next to the ignitor. I had one Lennox furnace where the ignitor and flame sensor (they both looked like spark plugs) were about 4 inches apart.

I've also had the electronic control module go bad and I've had the electric solenoid on the gas valve quit working.

Good luck,

Randy

With ignitor there is not pilot light (no flame), thus no pilot "flame sensor" (thermopile, thermocouple...aka pilot generator.

Air introduction into the fuel service line will cause the symptoms described. As already mentioned in another post, with liquid fuel burner (non-self-pressurized fuel circuit) priming of the fuel pump will be needed. With self pressurizing system (gas fuel) purging of air in the lines will be needed, accomplished thusly by self purging:

Fuel will first reach the fuel burner which is both closest to the source and lowest in elevation. So begin with appliances closest to fuel source and begin igniting burners. For example, if a range is closest, first light the oven, then the range top burners. Then proceed to the next appliance, lighting burners, until you reach the problem burner (in this case the central heat burner). With control set on "pilot," actuate the manual pilot override continuously until ignition is achieved. This might take some time (to purge air in the line) but ignition should eventually occur. Easier if feasible: call out the fuel suppler and/or heating system supplier and let them restart the system. In most locations...no charge for this service.

Hi uni0808Sun,

I presume you are talking about Gas operated water heater (LPG or Natural), if I'm right try this;

As you said ignitor works then:

Is the Pilot staying ON?

if NO > check the pilot tube for gas/check for draft.

> Check the pilot assembly.

> Check thermocouple.

> Check gas valve for proper operation.

> Clean or Replace.

If YES > check the gas valve if getting 24VAC?

> Check temperature controller.

If you are not so aware on the above, I would highly suggest that you must call proper qualified service technician as we value and consider safety of your life, your family, people and your property as well. especially "LPG" my friend if you make single mistake you will celebrate like early new year with the big BANG!!!! happy new year!!!!!

Kind regards

Roman

Why would you have a pilot light AND an igniter, surely only the one or the other is needed?

Pilot lights have, or at least should have gone out with the ark.....they waste too much gas.....

Also, upto now, I have not seen confirmation of what the fuel type is.....

Why would you have a pilot light AND an igniter, surely only the one or the other is needed?[i[

Pilot lights have, or at least should have gone out with the ark.....they waste too much gas.....

Also, upto now, I have not seen confirmation of what the fuel type is.....

I repaired a small, 16,000 btu, space heater just a few days ago. It had a manual piezoelectric ignitor, which lights the pilot, which lights the burner. Not so hard to imagine that there are still thousands using of this type of heater spread out around the globe. A lot of time and words have been offered in speculation, but as you mentioned, it would be nice to have more info from the OP. Happy Holidays!

I should have written "Automatic" igniter.....thanks.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the question, the correct answer should be coming from the designer of the unit who manufactured my Gas operated heater. how ever base on my opinion it is sometimes necessary to have pilot light to be on always as once the set point temperature reach, the main gas valve of the burner should be off, if the temperature went down of course the main burner valve must be opened and the burner should fired as the ignitor don't ignite automatically as it was designed that way. In addition please be also informed that all of my gas stoves, oven, tilting pan etc. which are gas operated are all designed with the same system but from different manufacturer from different country in the world. as a good example find below skeeter response.

Hope my personal point of view and opinion on your question well serve as a pilot light and won't make you ignite HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

Kind regards

Roman

Here in Germany, I do believe I am correct in saying that pilot lights have been completely outlawed on new equipment for about 15 years, due to the wastage of gas....the German government is very interested in conservation of energy sources. Not all governments are able to take such a stand, I do realise that....

The automatic igniter is a very cheap way of lighting the gas and controlling the flame etc...a small 4 bit microprocessor, a very old design, does all the "hard work"!

Most old boilers have a manual peizo ignitor for the pilot...

uni0808sun,

Merry Christmas! Everybody here has given some good pointers but we really have no idea of what type of equipment you have. Central Heat narrows your question down enough that we know it's not a space htr. If you are going to attempt repairs yourself you will need a model and serial number and brand to even order a part. Any hvac service people out there at least have a starting point to help you. Many responses have referred to thermocouples and standing pilot systems which are very rare nowadays. Direct fired burners are mostly used today 10 yrs. Most ignition controllers also have LEDs which provide fault codes that can be helpful. A vom is also a must to verify the you gas valve is being energize. A gas pressure gauge is also necessary to prove that fuel is flowing trough the valve when it is energized. The electrical ladder diagram is also the tool needed to troubleshoot the system. Is there a safety such as roll-out switch or limit that will allow an ignition cycle to occur but prevent the gas valve from opening.

Good Luck, and if you have further questions please include a brand and model or at least and accurate description of the unit.

You say the igniter is working.Is the pilot light igniting? Is it a spark gap or surface igniter? Is the gas supply raw or premixed?Most ignition control module will fault out after several attempts to ignite fail.How does it know if it has failed or not:By feed back to the module via a thermopile,that generates a voltage from the heat generated by the flame. If the flame ignites, and does not stay on, you may have a faulty ignition module.which turns on the main gas valve and holds it open unless a fault is detected. Some igniters have the thermo-sensor built in, so it could still be the igniter.Gas valves rarely go bad, but it is still a possibility. The normal sequence is :A demand for heat is sensed by the gas control module. A voltage is output to the igniter, and the gas valve is energized.If the ignition is successful within a certain time period, , the control module receives a signal indicating that the main flame is lit, and it maintains the open gas valve, until the thermostat reaches set point, at which time it turns off the main gas valve and waits for the next command for heat.If no "proof of flame" signal is detected, the module removes voltage from the igniter.After several unsuccessful attempts, a long-interval of time must elapse before it will reset.This allows any built up gas to purge from the chamber, or the unit must be reset via the thermostat on-off switch. In addition to flame sensor, there must be proof of stack fan operation, either by pressure switch in the stack, or switch on end of stack motor. Most frequent problem is the surface igniter going bad, or the module itself, especially if there was any nearby lightning activity during the summer.-----------------------------------HTRN------------------------------------------------------------------

Since we do not have ANY information on the make.model,fuel, it is not appropriate to guess. I have experienced gas valve electrical failure on both our Trane gas furnaces They are 18 years old now, failures at 12 and 16 years. Also had to replace heat exchangers on both units (9 years) and we were charged $700 flate rate LABOR by the Dealer for a total of 4 Mh (2 technicians, 2 hours) Also had to replace 2 of the burners in one unit--looked as if one had an explosion--but it was long time leak and flame impingement. Also have changed out both evaporator coils (bad design had copper coil bend just touching galvanized case--elytrolytic corrosion cell perforated coil in 3 yrs, not warranted) Also both outside units (compressor/condensor) failed--one was compressor, other was spine-fin coil leak not repairable. One condensing fan also failed (they are removed and lubricated every year). I am NOT impressed with Trane quality--and these were just below top priced units---but these were made 19 years ago.

Thank you all for the helpful responses. Many of you have said something about the model number and the make of the heater as well as specificity of the heater. It is a residential central heating device in an attic of a townhouse in California.

Sorry if this thread may be off topic, but I need the help.

Model Number: BGU0502AX

Brand: Coleman EVCON

First step should be the furnace operating manual (which should have been left by the installer) and the troubleshooting tips.

I may have a similar natural gas forced air system in which the timed ignition sequence begins with the pre-ignition blower checking to ensure that the exhaust stack is clear. That's followed by the ignitor energizing. A flame sensor is generally located at the opposite end of the burner. It's essentially a bushing with an insulated terminal mounted above the burner plate and an electrode below in the flame. If the electrode becomes contaminated, it doesn't sense the flame and the gas valve closes and locks out after 3 attempts. I've found it necessary to occasionally remove and clean the flame sensor electrode with fine steel wool.

With my system, if the ignition sequence fails, the pre-ignition blower continues to operate.

As others have mentioned, most systems have built in diagnostics, with flashing light codes to help troubleshoot and solve the problem.

Most of the answers have at least 1 inaccuracy.

If I understand you; you say the igniter works , but no flame.

You have either a spark ignition or a hot surface igniter (it glows red/white hot)

There are two types of late model furnaces out there

1: A unit that establishes a pilot flame and than once confirmed using a "flame rod" sensing a milliamp signal via flame rectification. It then allows the main gas valve to open.

2: A direct fired unit, that opens the main gas valve during the ignition trial and looks for the same milliamp signal from the "flame rod"

Dirt and dust are your biggest problem for these devices.Pull your fame rod (it is about three inches long usually straight or it may have a bend in it, it may be a mirror image of your spark electrode or the same if you have one). Clean it and your electrode (if you have one) with a Scotchbrite pad or fine emery cloth. If that fails to work, confirm that you have 24 Volts to your gas valve during the start up sequence. If you do, than you have failed valve, maybe? Really could use a make, model number and age of your furnace as each manufacturer has had ther problems over the years.

Most of the answers still have some inaccuracy, mainly due to an incomplete description of the problem. It does not help that Coleman (www.colemanac.com) is not very generous with their product literature to those outside their dealer network.

However: (1) The fact that your furnace will attempt three re-starts before locking itself out implies that this has a microprocessor control. (2) Therefore, it is fairly new, (3) Therefore, it probably has Hot Surface Ignition of the main burner, and (d) It may have a blinking LED on the main circuit board, and a decal that identifies what the blinking sequence means.

If it does not have the LED, then know that the microprocessor energizes a furnace in a certain sequence that involves one time delay before energizing the gas valve, and a second time delay before attempting to sense the flame.

Without knowing the exact timing seqence you can do nothing more than guess at the actual problems. This is not a good idea for a device that is designed to control fire. I strongly urge you to hire a professionsal to troubleshoot your furnace. They should have the knowledge to both find the problem, and also to diagnose why the problem occurred. Also, most furnaces sold in California have nitrous oxide (NOx) emission reduction devices to decrease smog. This is another reason to hire a professional.

Good answer "Inspector Gadget" (meant seriously).

Good answer "Inspector Gadget" (meant seriously).

Greetings, DRFREON,

You can give a legitimate "good" rating to a poster by opening the "Rate" window, then clicking the appropriate box. Cheers! :-)

I appreciate what you wrote, but I feel differently. Define legitimate (on this forum).

Was this problem ever solved?????

Thanks for the information. http://www.actiontotherescue.com

Once I had similar problem while lighting-up a gas fired boiler. It lights-up by oil through burner. I found a standard logic of the burner. It is operated by a small motor, synchronised with starting of oil pump. I found problem of some cam setting. It used to purge first for 2 cycles, oil pump starts and after some delay the spark generates through high voltage ignitor coil. I don't remember exactly how and what are the problems, but remember did a through study of its operation logic and solved the problem. I therefore suggest you to understand the logic first, check operation of each logic stage by stage. In case the purging operation continues after spark generation the flame will not come.I feel the problem is there in the burner operation.

Best of luck.

Regards

Regards