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Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/12/2009 3:33 AM

dear cr4,

i want to ask one question.acording to faradays law,when we twist the wire around the any solid counductor and supply give to the wire then magnetic feild will produse around the counductor.here my question is if we give the supply to the same wire.is n't it short circuit?please explain me in detail.i hope you will give the correct answer.

thank you

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#1

Re: question

01/12/2009 4:35 AM

A few turns of wire will be very much like a short circuit and very high currents will flow.
The twists of wire will have some resistance and inductance.
If you look at the coil of a 12vDC relay you will see it has very many turns of very fine wire and a resistance of say a 100ohms such that it will draw just milliamps.

Del

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: question

01/13/2009 12:43 AM

There you go with your abusive answers again. When are you going to stop?

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: question

01/13/2009 9:25 PM

What are you doing in England?!

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#8
In reply to #1

Re: question

01/13/2009 6:24 AM

That's right. Any insulator can be breached given enough current or voltage.

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#2

Re: Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/12/2009 12:13 PM

Dear shaik.thameem,

I think that by asking about "short circuit" you may mean between the coiled wire and the conductor around which it is coiled.

If that is your question, then a presumption that there is insulation on one or both wires would prevent a short-circuit.

If not insulated, then we would need to know more about the supply and circuits to determine if short circuit will occur.

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/13/2009 7:49 AM

God morning CJM,

There was a time when I knew it all! I was a junior in High School.

When I became a senior, I was convinced, that as we were just repeating all that I had learned over the years, that there simply was nothing more to learn.

Then I Graduated and moved on into the "real" world"!

With so much new technology happening so fast I have learned that I must be satisfied with that knoweledge which is "mine" and be willing to share with the CR 4 players all of that which is found on the internet. If I were selfish, I'd have little fun!

TMF

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Faraday's Law and Short Circuits

01/13/2009 11:37 AM

I really like your CR4 name. Too many folks are so focused on being 'right' that they fail to find the fun in being who they are.

I find great joy in passing on something I have learned, and even greater joy in continuing to learn.

I figured out as a very young man the ultimate joy of learning. It is actually comforting to know that even when I am highly skilled in some area, there is no point at which there is nothing more to learn. That would be so boring, and I would be so bored.

Add to that an insatiable hunger for understanding. I use that word specifically to differentiate that 'education' and 'knowledge' are so subjective. I noticed that we kept getting updates to our texts, and I realized that 50 year old texts would be of little value, which naturally led me to conclude that 50 years from now my 'new' text would require serious updates.

I taught my children to learn how to answer the test questions correctly, resulting in good grades, but to recognize that what they have been taught is only the best guess at this time, and is always subject to updates.

CR4 offers such a variety, but often fuels my hunger rather than satisfying it. I understand but do not share in the discontent with "stupid" questions, as some have recently expressed. I am instead encouraged that hungry young minds are asking to learn - and quickly do - though they may be surprised what they learn.

Stay hungry my friends.

CJM

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: Faraday's Law and Short Circuits

01/14/2009 2:17 PM

Thank You, CJM,

I find that no matter the quantity of ones "knowledge," there is much to be learned from the least knowledgeable individual. Like the discovery of the wheel, using fire to sharpen and harden sticks for the killing of animals, the discovery of using the brains of these animals to soften the skins to make them comfortable to wear.

Here I have identified the Motion (mechanical) Engineer with the wheel, a design Engineer, through the hardening of the spear point and the chemical engineer with the softening of these skins.

All likely are graduates from M.I.T./ Or maybe the "College of Hard Knocks and Survival".

TMF

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Faraday's Law and Short Circuits

01/14/2009 2:27 PM

"... there is much to be learned from the least knowledgeable individual."

Kids, especially little kids, make great teachers. Sometimes the clearest view of a problem can be seen through their uncluttered, unbiased eyes.

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#4

Re: Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/13/2009 1:22 AM

GA to del and I don't understand the guest(no name)

The cat is exactly to the point and exact means exact what is wrong with the statement?

We know the wire has (my memory if it serves me right from my grad/post grad days of Electrical Engg)

a) resistance

b) Self Inductance

c) The Mutual inductance due to coiling it.

So the voltage current relationship is

V = I (R +ωL) (phasor sum)

L is the summation of both Lself +Lmutual

For a coil - as he mentions (unles you have a few thousands of coil and a ferritic core inside - which will improve linkages and hence increase inductance) - L will be very low and if it is a copper/aluminium (hopefully not using Au) wire R is Low

And also if he is on DC, ω = 0

so the current,I will be very high.

I = V/(R+ωL) where R→0, ω=0 and L→0

Do you Mr No name - have any personal enmity with Del ?

If you have pl register and come out in open forum and let us not spoil the atmosphere of the forum

If del is wrong please come out with his mistake not an - off topic(marked you), superfluous. unsubstantiated/ puerile remarks.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/13/2009 1:42 AM

Oh come now sb, you know you're dying to talk...<sexy whisper>...impedance! [And phasors, and leading and lagging, poles and zeros, transfer functions, s-plane analysis, LaPlace transforms and..and..oh be still my heart! ("STFU europium and go to bed!" he says)]

See y'all mañana!

e-man

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/13/2009 2:21 AM
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#6

Re: Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/13/2009 2:17 AM

I do expect to find out questions and answers which could help on my day to day work based on the experience of engineers.

The above is irrelevant and the answer could be found on the web at any basic electrical course. Such questions spoils the site and a more self discipline may be required.

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/13/2009 9:26 AM

This issue presents and interesting challenge we run into industry: how do we give usefull information for education and problem solving without having to make everyone into an engineer to understand? I believe the answer is communication and patience. To communicate effectively we have to understand (as much as possible) what the questioner knows (by the question content) and then answer in the simplest terms so they obtain usefull information. Most people do not think like engineers. If the question frustrates beyond our patience, we all have the option of just skipping it and moving on to the next problem. It does not make sense to limit questions, because sometimes the seemingly craziest ones can indirectly produce amazing innovation. I score a 1 for off topic on myself!

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Farady's Law and Short Circuits

01/14/2009 1:33 AM

I don't know if the prev guest is on topic then how you are off topic ?

Some times I also become a bit impatient but here we should remember that though this is for us engineers , all are not

A few school children also may ask us question (exactly the same problem has happened a few days back with my child so i remember and answered the question- he made a coil since he knew that the current passing thru it makes it magnetic - unfortunately the material was cu, he didn't know at least a limiting R should be put in series and fortunately he tried with a 1.5V cell

When I came back from office he said "dad i did this and the cell got heated up"

I am telling the episode because the OP may ba from the school and his doubt may be some school project - and at that level all teachers are not ready with the answer to their satisfaction.

We should not always think that the person on other end is an engineer (To be honest I too get irritated a bit some times by these type of question - then any way I am not human and thereby more un- missed the word )

But : We do not as a rule do somebodies home work

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