Speedtronic Turbine Controls

Sometimes it's best to admit defeat (or at least lack of training).

Please go immediately to the person who recruited you and explain the situation. Well intentioned advice from individuals could cause catastrophie.

Either you've overstated your capabilities during recruitment or the employer has not done a proper review of necessary capabilities during selection. There seems to be a significant "skills gap" that this forum could not hope to correct in the time frame necessary.

Sorry, but sometimes the hard pills have to be swallowed.

abusaqmm,

Just an Engineer has it right, you need more help than we could possibly give you here. You have read the MkV books, which is a very good start, but if you do not understand them then you could get yourself and your poor GT into trouble. Ask for a 3 week MKV course conducted by GE in many parts of the world. This is not an easy subject and most instrument engineers take many years to become really familiar with these control systems.

Hi there,

As stated above - go back to your employers and explain your predicament. Turbine control is not aa simple thing. It takes many years to become expert with it. If you just take a chance and go ahead you might end up causing yourself and/or someone else harm as well as damaging the machine.

Good luck

Craig

21/1/2009

Hello Over there,

Without knowing your background such as education, experience etc. additional to this the plant configuration it will be very hard to give you some tips how to survive as GT specialist (MK5)! But you don't worry, if the plant ( I assume power plant) where you are working running without any major problems you will have some time to do some self study to learn. The MK5 system is very reliable, especially if its equipped with the so called <I> (and not WIN NT HMI) which is the interfacing PC to the MK5 panel. Furthermore you will need indeed basic training course for the MK5. Again it's not rocket science but you need to know the basics such as but not limited to, LOGIC FORCING, CALIBRATION OF THE GAS VALVES ETC. If you give your email, I will send you some MK5 documentation such as the "MK5 for Dummies" Believe or not, it exists (For the MKVI on the way....).

As regard the comments given by other members, indeed you might not be the best person for the job but, we should remember that with a bit of common sense and training you might be doing your job well. Beside this, there is a increasing demand for GT specialists due to major GT projects world wide. Where do you get people with experience and how much are you willing to pay?

If its not asking too much, I to would very much like to see the material you have.

emdmechanic@hotmail.com

In addition to requesting training classes and self study, you might want to suggest to your boss/management, to hire a contractor that has previous experience with tubine controls. If you look in the professional magazines, you will see a number of companies that already have the experience base to perform any uprate/repair/replacement job.

In this forum you wind up with a little bit of information and try to explain some very complex subjects that could be related to all sorts of personal situations.

All things are possible, but more than likely you didn't get this system dumped on you in total. If so you are going to require some outside assistance, enough said on that point.

The approach that I would suggest is to get with the operators and get all the information from them as to what the system can do, also pay attention to what it can't do.

Memory tells me that the Mark V was a DOS based system, DOS goes back to the late seventy's early eighty's, it is somewhat equivalent to working with the command line on todays systems. Memory also tells me that when the switch was made from Mark IV (analog) to Mark V (digital) DOS was at the least outdated, back then people were scrambling trying to re-learn DOS.

If you don't have a knowledgeable person on site that can give you some guidance you are taking on a task that is equivalent to figuring out relay logic without a relay function or device list. a daunting task at the least.

I doubt that you will figure the system out on your own, if you can't you need to find some way to gain access to a person that is knowledgeable.

I will offer one caution that applies to most modern control systems, don't get yourself in trouble by making control changes that affect operational parameters that you have limited or no knowledge of. Some of the changes you can make in a few keystrokes nowadays would have required removing a lever and re-machining it. That would probably have indicated to the controls guy that something was amiss.

If you are young keep hammering away at it, you will get it. If you are old hang on retirement can't be far off.

Ah yes, the infamous sink or swim business paradigm. It's good that you recognize your limits. But there is one more question you should ask yourself. If your boss sees no problem having you work on the controls of a gas turbine, what about the guy next to you? Is he really qualified to weld or rewire the generator? What about the riggers who will be strapping up the two tonne generator for hoisting over your head? Be careful.

Hello redfred,

We have to wonder in a situation like this, as you say, who is the qualified Engineer on site? I hope he does is explain all, and ask if he can report to this boss with any problems. I would go so far as to ask the boss to whom I should report to on site. It may be that the boss is nowhere near and sometimes you need visual confirmation?

For what it is worth, and whether the advice is heeded, we have given our advice, everyone on the thread has helped, though it may not seem so at the moment.

Hello abusagmm,

GE gas turbine (pwer) system I have no idea about it and its control system which is mark five it is really (deffecult) cause I have read the GE manuals and I couldn't under stand

Sort of in a pickle aren't you?................I am not patting myself on the back (not easy to do actually), but, I have to say if anything I always understated my capabilities at a job interview. After my first job I was head hunted which says I guess I had something to offer.

It has been said in almost every post so far, but, unless you told a few porkies (porky pies-lies) at your interview you may not have gotten the job. As you have the job, you have several things you must do.

First, go to your employer and admit that you are not familiar with the type of control systems you have to deal with and, is it possible to get a few pointers? He may point you to the door and say know. He may also fast-track you and educate you to what is needed and how to achieve it?

Your only way out is to be completely honest and tell your boss, and chances are he was not the one who interviewed you, that you know sweet FA about Turbines, and, or, you know nothing about this type of turbine. B-U-T------------It does not bode well that you cannot understand a basic Reference tool like the GE Manual/s.

Often people like GE will hardly bother with interviews anyway. They will employ virtually direct from University. But, if you also lied and may be cheated at Uni' as well, your apparent qualifications are worthless.

If you went not knowing you might have to take control of the specific project you say you are in need of help with, then fair enough. However, I cannot see a large company like GE or one of their subsidiaries entertaining your employment with out first making it clear in the interview what you should be doing, in detail.

There are so many different Turbines, and control applications, and as many different ways of set up and programming, whether , inside, outside, in freezing conditions, or boiling hot conditions, dusty, dry or wet.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here, it costs me nothing, but, it could end up costing your employer and the company you may fit this machine for/in, a whole lot of trouble. ..................

Look, you have to be honest with your employers, whoever they be throughout your life, and more important, be honest with yourself!!!!! If you looked at the training for the 'general knowledge' part of Engineering, as you were going through Uni' and expected an easy ride, well, guess what...........It does not happen.

Apparent 'easy rides' look like that because the people doing the job, know what they are doing.

It always makes a job look easy when you get to watch an experienced skilled worker engineer. Oh, yes, piece of cake this job. You just do some measuring, turn some switches and check dials.......Now you know the truth.

Get in and tell your employer.

DO NOT GO TO OTHER ADVICE SITES AND ASK FOR HELP. .........admit you are under qualified and hope your boss takes pity. It may well be you are good at 'everything' else in engineering but, not Turbines?

You must be honest. Because, as is now the case, there will always be something you are not good at. Engineering covers thousands of categories and you have to find the one you fit in and suites you. That may mean considerably less remuneration, but, hey thats life.

By the way, you wrote a very short intro' for us. And still managed two spelling errors. At least check the spelling before you write any reports or fill any forms in the future. Unprofessional is what it is. Your first Language may not be English? Even more reason for going that extra mile and at least check your spelling.

I sincerely wish you luck. Honesty seems to be the hardest word. Go on Elton! Its sad, so sad. Its a sad sad situation.......etc

No respect with out it!

I totally agree with babybear. When I was interviewed for my present job, I was asked if I knew this and that. I was honest with the interviewer (My present supervisor) that I did not know anything about some of the the items he asked about. I still recieved a job offer and am now working. Though I do not know some of the things that we are working on, my supervisor is alway ready to help with a reference or previous project that entailed what we are working on now for self-study. Engineering is a very broad subject and it is not possible to know everything. Hopefully your boss understands this and will help you out.

Also, if English is not your first language, when you write anything have someone who's first language is English read it for understanding and clarity. Most word processing programs and this forum have a spell check function and programs like Word also have a grammar checker. English is my first language but my degree is in physics not English so I use the spell check often (I am a horrible speller) and the grammar checker. By doing this and paying attention to the suggested changes, your written products will become more professional.

I have sympathy for people who's first language is not English, due to the variations in the usage and spelling. So all of you who work with these people, have some patience with them and help them out.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Hello NukeGeek:

I appreciate the mention, OK?

Take care..............

MY boss knows that I dont know any thing about gas turbine but the main thing that he asign me on this gas turbine and its control sys .any way

thanks every budy .

Don't be disheartened, the job is like eating an elephant, none of us (including your boss) expect to have the whole thing for lunch.

Lots of luck.

Hello abusaqmm:

Well, if your boss has assigned you this, then maybe he should be reassigned?

If your boss assigned you then you should have no worries about asking him for advice. ALL bosses are not ogres you know? I always had daily meeting with my boss, and kept that as part of my day when I took his place.

And, you may have taken this on your back but it could be a test. You have to be stretched once in a while. There will be many a time in the field where you have to make decision off your own back, and it all helps with your 'education' 'on the job'?

I suggest you start by telling us,but, more importantly, telling your boss the parts in the GE Handbooks you do not understand. I personally can't advise you although I can find stuff if it is on the web. I would not pass it on, as I know nothing or, very little about the operating systems of turbines.

Did you say you had to find an operating system for a turbine? What turbine is it, as there is a whole lot GE makes and sells.

Good luck and be honest and brave and go in and tell your boss. You never know, you may have already spoken to him in incognito on this site? Or possible someone who knows him, and your situation only too well. It is up to whoever they may be to post advice, but, what you may see as a mountain may just be a slight hill? We all have to overcome those in everyday life, whether it is work or anything else. Worth a thought?

Swallow your pride and talk to your immediate boss, if not the one who assigned you to your position.

Good luck......................

abusaqmm,

To add more of precautious advices to you from others.

It is good that you have accepted that you know "Speedtronic MK5", by name only.

Again, I would advice you to immediately "vacate the area" and leave it to your "BOSS" everything before you go to "calabos".

This was happened in Saudi Arabia way back 1982 in Shedgum, where there were seven (7) Frame 7/Speedtronic MarkII. All involved in trouble shooting and repair of this controls were send to investigation and two (2) of them, where found not qualified to be there and according to the report, they falsified their CV/Resume. The contractor were banned to have contract with SCECO.

Remember: "LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS VERY-VERY DANGEROUS".

Good Luck...

Eren (12 years experience in Speedtronics Mark II and IV)

There are bosses who just command while others challenge you.

I'm not sure which type your boss is. I've had some who assigned me jobs I had little or no knowledge about. I had to study and I had to ask people. The point is, I learned. The boss was mightly pleased about that. Then they assigned me to something else.

I also agree that you should be honest and talk to your boss. If he's half-way decent, he'll explain his intentions to you and maybe point you in the right direction.

Keep calm. Perhaps your anxiety about your new assignent is clouding your thinking. It's difficult to learn when you're nervous or unsure. Take things one step at a time.

My advise is to stay there and learn. Don't be afraid to ask people about how it works or have them explain something from the manual. Watch other people do their job and observe how things work. Most of all, ask about safety.

I was new too so I know how you feel. Depend on your mates and you'll do fine. If your companions are the selfish type and don't want to bother teaching you, I suggest you go find employ somewhere else.

regards,

Vulcan

Hello everyone, about bosses, let me tell you... I spent 20 years all most in GE, Salem virgina office but going around the world to fix controls problems, speedtronic from MKII to MKVI, for heavy duty machine, steam and LM machines.

2003 I quit the company because for the manager we were only stupid numbers, the new manager advise us ( 72 control people ) that we had a lot of new gas and steam turbine to be installed and commissioned, I ask a question during a department general meeting, the answer from the boss was: " DO NOT WARRY, WITHIN SIX MONTS, WE CAN INSTRUCT A PERFECT SPEEDTRONIC ENGINEER LIKE YOU ARE".

This comment make me think the following: either I have understood nothing within 20 years, or this stupid boss does not deserve that I work for him because he has no clue of we are talking about.

In any case I quit and now I'm in the free market and I'm making more money ever!

Going back to your question, I can only tell you that if you start to work on a gas or steam turbine, regardless what is the control system installed, you MUST know first how the machine is working, the entire process, and also in that case be really careful, high speed rotating machines are not a jock.

Remeber for your trouble shoting that any machine is a different case, use this philosophy as an approach and you will reduce all the possible impact.

Get trained from GE, possibly Salem VA. there are very good teachers, get field experience if you have the chance with a person that know the job.

If one of the above mentioned things is missing, go to your boss and tell him that he is NOT a responsible person to let you work on such machine without the needed experience.

Regards.

dude,

what job is that CI or hot gas path.

what kind of instruments. dos or hmi.

which site .customer

raf.

• hello my friend what type of detail you need for understanding of Mark V , i can help u what i can....my mail id soccer.bt@gmail.com
  

I can give you training at site if you want, you can contact me in arbam@cbn.net.id