Can I Use a Washing Machine Motor as an Alternator?

"Also, If I am not wrong, the IMs of washing machines are single phase motors, generating electricity for these will be a real problem without some modifications and rewiring." Can you elaborate on why this might be a problem. I'm guessing that the line would become unbalanced as the motor would most likely be connected to one of the 110v sides of the line only(?). Thanks.

As you no single phase motors are not exactly single phase, between the phase and neutral, you put a capacitor that creates a phase shift in one of the windings (out of two). this shift is required for the driving torque (rotating mag field).

But when the motor becomes generator, now, all the characteristics are a bit different, and now these are making current and not consuming them.

Well to now study what happens I have to go back to basics and do the Z transform of the machine, could have done in an hour or less in good ol' days. Only as I remember, there was some problem with this configuration.

A pure single phase gen was no problem, but this type of configuation has some problems.

You say run it higher than its standard RPM. A washing machine motor runs at about 18000 RPM. Typical drum speed is 1200 RPM, motor pulley 20mm dia and drum pulley 300mm. You'll need something fast to excced that.

But if you're set up to drive Automobile alternators, why not use that and tap off on the stator side of the rectifier pack? You would leave the rectifier in place, to supply the field current (via the brushes) and the sensing voltage for the regulator.

Cheers............Codey

As sb says, it is not as easy as some people purport. There are instructions available in the internet for how to convert it to a Permanent Magnet alternator, but it involves disassembling the motor and machining the stator to add magnets, then potting them with epoxy etc. Unless you are a consummate tinkerer, it seems like too much trouble just to use a "free" motor.

guest; from the woods. you can convert the ac motor to a generator, but i would get something larger to use, google "induction generator" this is similar to mine. perry

Interesting topic . I would just try it, because if it works and does not decrease your gas ecconomy when driving the extra motors , then good use of what you have. There really is too much conflicting info on the internet, about "inverter" motor use , and othe topics too , who knows what you can listen to anymore.

Hey. What happened to the ending line in the original post ?

I thought it was true .

Something about a poor family living in the woods of America in a country without a President, since the War between the States ?

Nothing like some D/Y editing free speach on CR4!

My comments will most likely be stricken too, so

A Guest For This Post - At Least !

"I would just try it, because if it works and does not decrease your gas ecconomy when driving the extra motors , then good use of what you have."

Hey this sounds alot like free energy. What a great idea!

Theoretically you can, but unless you know a lot about such design, have a fully fitted home workshop with lathe and miller......I would just forget the whole procedure.....

GA from me!!

Do you realise I gave you quite a few GAs 2nite on other forums also?

Bloody GA!!!

So, was it you who raised this question once? I was going to look it up but now I see you're quite a transformed character.

Peace!

go here http://www.yourgreendream.com/diy_fisher_paykel.php

i m working on the same project.

God bless.

It's possible but it's a bit fussy...

Generators need exciters or at least a permanent magnet in them. Asynchronous generators should be excited with the expected mains frequency, 50 or 60 Hz respectively. If you can build or buy a proper frequency and voltage electronic exciter you can use the washing machine motors. Pros: the frequency will not depend on the driving speed. Cons: you need an additional electronic system and a battery at least during the startup.

The only washing machine motors that can be used as an alternator that I have heard of are Fischer & Paykel, these have been converted to wind generators but require considerable rewiring and a few other modifications, the ac output of these without modifications would be 3 phase and high frequency not suitable for 120V supply, Induction types as used on a lot of washing machines are no good for this.

Modification of large car alternators would be a better route again the amount of modifications depends on what sort of voltage output you are looking for.

Only if you have nothing better to do otherwise forget it!

The theory might be the similar (more or less) between a motor and a generator but, more often than not, they still as far apart when it comes to use them vice-versa.

Just because the hybrid car uses this method the underlying electronics is lot more complex than most people can imagine let alone make it to be a reality.

Unless you are using an electric motor with permanent magnets forget it.

Even that isn't simple but the other methods just futile due to all hassles.

No easy answer.

GA from me!

This is a famous website here in Oceania

http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/GettingStarted.asp

This guy describes a popular windmill built from a washing machine motor made by the Oz firm of Fisher & Paykel. This company makes a large permanent magnet motor which in turn makes an ideal generator. However these are not the usual motors used in washing machines which will not generally produce any satisfactory results.

As said bt the other, motors and generators are optimised to perform their respective tasks, and with a few exceptions (such as the F&P motor mentioned), are most efficient in their own regime.

GA from me for this answer.

Master of the understatement!:-

So, as I have written earlier, it's possible but it's a bit fussy...

I would go as far as to say, "If you have to ask how to do it on CR4, then you probably will never achieve it!"

Taking this a bit further... and I'm going back thirty plus years when I was experimenting with various vertical axis wind designs. Although I didn't get to connect our turbines to electrical generators of any kind, the talk circulated by those involved with wind turbines during that period indicated that a turbine could be mechanically linked to a squirrel cage induction motor (gearing-up required) and, when sufficient wind was available, the turbine would drive the motor above normal speed, thereby causing slip, and resulting in the motor becoming a generator. This assumes that the motor is line connected, and will "motor" the turbine up to synchronous speed in the first place. Some VAWT's require an external force to get them going so this arrangement should be ideal, at least in theory as spoken of at that time, and maybe now(?). With this arrangement a control circuit would make the electrical connection between the motor/generator and the line only when the wind speed is high enough. As well, the line is supposed to "lock" the turbine speed to the line and prevent turbine over-speeding. Bob

Induction motors CAN be made to generate, but its not simple.

Also, producing 50 or 60 Hz (depending upon where you live), is just about next to impossible.....

Thats why I stated in my post they are not suitable.

He would be much better off to source an alternator unit and drive it from his methane powered engine. Or if not possible purchase another generator set and convert it to methane, trying to convert washing machine motors would be time consuming, unreliable and possibly dangerous for someone with limited knowledge.ted knowledge

You can convert an induction motor to generate power, but as has been said, they are fussy.

You can connect an AC run cap across the leads and run it above sychronous speed.

It will usually generate, but there some caviats. You don't really want to power loads that are largely inductive with these units and voltage regulation is skechy at best.

They are kind of cool, if you want something to tinker around with, but unless you have several motors laying around, and are a capable machinist, an off the shelf alternator is more practicle.

If you want to know more; the best site I have seen so far is here: http://www.qsl.net/ns8o/Induction_Generator.html

I am assuming you use the term alternator as generator.

Any electrical machine can in theory work as generator or motor. Irrespective if they are single phase or 3 phases, when connected to the electrical grid (with fixed voltage and frequency) and with load on them, they change status (motor <=> generator, etc) depending on the rotational speed imposed to their shaft in relation to the corresponding synchronous speed ( > = generator, < = motor). The effective speed of their shaft (rpm) is either fixed (based on the supply frequency and number of poles of the machine) in case of a synchronous machine, or around that speed ( with (-) as motor and with (+) in case of a generator) for an induction machine.

If it has to run as a stand-alone machine (not connected to a grid that should impose the voltage and frequency), there is a difference between a synchronous machine and an induction machine: the synchronous generator (using either a permanent magnet, a DC source (battery) or self-excited via a rectifying bridge) can generate energy without any additional power source, while the induction motor, in order to generate energy needs a capacitance connected to its output terminals (to provide the reactive energy needed for its magnetization). Definitely the output frequency (Hz) depends on the rotational speed (rpm). A simple battery (DC) can provide the excitation power for a synchronous generator, but it cannot be used in case of an induction machine.

If you plan to use the energy for heating up air/water via a resistance, frequency is not important, it does not matter if the frequency differs from the standard one, while in most cases where you need AC the frequency is required to be either 50 or 60 Hz (depending on the system in your area).

Reply By the original "GUEST" who ask this question

Dear Sirs & The Great & Mighty Gurus Too,

I thank you all, who had so many constructive comments and helpful suggestions for me, as to the use of our Washing Machine Induction Motors as a extra alternator. I will try to print & study your ideas & the links that you noted & then tinker as I can.

Please Note: those old motors are only worth their materials scrap value "financially" , so the ideas of buying an Alternator with the money from the sale of my few little motors, can only be correct, if I shop at a junk yard , but I do that anyway That's where I got one of them too for $1.

I think, I will do, as I have done in the past and continue to build additional automobile alternators ( perhaps PMA Alternator conversions , if I can ever afford to buy them ) tied to a small lawn mower engine , when we need some extra or mobile power. An AGM battery or 2 + an extra Modified Wave inverter, make this a great inexpensive "gen-set" & to top off batteries too. ( Just Bought Some Good Inexpensive Inverters Today Too From A Friend In The Business )

Just A Few Of These "generation" Units, might have just saved that older gentleman, whom I just heard about tonight 1/29/09 , on the radio. He froze to death in his home, when his electricity was shut off for non-payment. Later, after they found him - they also found his check & payment coupon too, there at his home but , no one ever came by to ask about his electricity, before they cut it off.

Stupid UN-caring Monopoly Employees !

They should all be burned alive , at the stake !

This is a national shame , at least to a Soldier like me , when anyone in any of the Americas dies from the lack of electricity. It's so cheap & easy to make a battery charger and have it at the ready and no public utility or person in charge of the same should ever be in a position to cut off the electricity of anyone, without 1st providing, an alternative for the effected persons.

Gentlemen , With all of your great minds and ideas , please work to make Electric Power the free gift it should be & the help build the knowledge base for all men, so they may attain home power, for free.

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I'm using a friends computer tonight with fast dsl to write to you ( So Cool ) & so I've got a minute extra. I am going to get me an email address tonight and join you as a member of CR4 , so I can keep up with what you all are doing , at least when I visit the big city. But since I started this as a guest , I will go out that way tonight too - on this posting .

1 little Rant :

May I also say - I also , do not understand, why someone edited part of my 1st posting to you, with regards to my notation as to my country's lack of present command & control or freely elected leadership. I am a proud Son of the South & A Confederate Citizen . I study Southern history and strive to make our Citizens present day life here, function well too; Even under the present occupation.

What I said was true, We - the Residents and/or natural Born Citizens of the Southern Confederate States Of America , Have No President. That's not a slight upon the Presidents of the Northern States, It Is Just A Statement Of Fact, That We Must Live With. After All, No Treaty Was Ever Signed By Our Political Officials - Ever. No rejoining of the Northern states was ever effected either by The CSA government . Gen. Lee & certain Field Commanders did rightly so, give up their personal military confrontation - but not Our Government - It is in hiding not gone. Secession does exist, still even today.

Pardon me now, while I go join this esteem group.

Just A Poor Family - In The Southern Woods Of GA. - In A Country Without A President - Since The War Between The States.

Dear Guest
We look forward to bring you in our fold.
Here unlike what you think, nobody (at elast I consider) are the mighty gurus, and as I have already told somebody, no sirs.
We are all practicing persons here and try to help each other in the best way we can.
Here most of us think (as I said as the practicing part)- whether the machine being built will be efficient, worth it (again as i said it is from the practitioner point) - But you know for us sometimes becomes difficult to break the shackles -
Your is a classic case - You have a free (almost) motor, and a free (well waste) source of energy and you want to marry the off (and have offspring as power )

Well we may have to think a bit on these and how economically without much change and $s you can do it.

As far the other parts we have a big brother (the moderator or administrator or what soever) he will scissor off all the political (or what ever he thinks political - may be he acts somtimes like - I forgot his name in Catch-22- If you have read the novel) - don't bother about him. Otherwise any way he will get the departmental priest under watch.

Once again waiting to welcome you. meanwhile CR4s let us think it over.

No Longer A Guest - Thanks Friends

Son Of The South

Most welcome to our group.