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Microwaves and Wireless Devices

02/04/2009 8:44 AM

How do you keep the microwave in the microwave? All the microwaves I have used disrupt; Bluetooth, WIFI, and cell phones. The microwave turns on and all signals are canceled.

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Guru

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#1

Re: Microwaves and wireless devices

02/04/2009 9:08 AM

Put the microwave in the oven?

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#2

Re: Microwaves and wireless devices

02/04/2009 11:10 AM

You have to have some perspective here. The difference in power usage between the two applications is tremendous. The microwave oven is generating hundreds of Watts of microwave power, whereas your cited applications are able to operate receiving power at the picowatt level - a difference ratio of 10^14. So your oven is called upon to have a lot of shielding in order to contain the microwave energy.

But in fact the oven was not designed to have enough shielding to contain down to the picowatt level; it was designed to protect humans and other living things from the health effects (tissue heating) from leaking microwave energy. That level is orders of magnitude higher than what your Wi-Fi or Bluetooth will operate at. So your microwave could be operating perfectly per manufacturer's specifications, and still cause a problem with a nearby Wi-Fi or Bluetooth link.

Now having said that, it is possible your microwave door has been damaged and whatever seal is provided between door and oven is degraded, allowing more energy to leak out than it should. And that indeed maybe the case here, for the following reason.

Bluetooth, most 802.11 Wi-Fi protocols, and most microwave ovens operate at 2.45 GHz. But your cell phone either operates at 850 MHz, or 1.875 GHz, and it shouldn't respond to 2.45 GHz. Unless the amount of 2.45 GHz power leaked from the oven is so high that it overpowers the cell phone out-of-band rejection, which could easily be thousands of times the power necessary to receive an intentional signal at the right frequency. That could happen if your oven were leaking excessively, and you were right next to it, and if you are getting a weak signal from the tower. I just checked our two microwaves against my 1.875 GHz cell phone, and right next to them there was no interference - but I'm getting all my "bars" lit up, meaning I have a strong signal.

All radio reception issues hinge on signal-to-noise ratio. If you have a strong signal, you can stand a lot of interference. If you have a marginal signal, it takes very little to cause interference. Since a radio can operate on signals as low as picowatts or as high as microwatts, the level of noise signals that can cause interference can also range over a factor of a million to one.

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#3

Re: Microwaves and Wireless Devices

02/05/2009 9:04 AM

emc²:

How would you increase the microwaves range but without causing ill effects to humans?

UFG

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Microwaves and Wireless Devices

02/05/2009 11:57 AM

I believe what you are asking is how can one extend the range of a microwave communications link where the radio transmitter is a personal device with antenna close to the operator, without harming the operator. Anyway, that is the question answered below. If you had something different in mind, you will have to let me know.

The operator aside for the moment, here are the things you can do to extend a COMM link at a fixed frequency over a short distance:

1) Increase transmit ERP (effective radiated power).

2) Increase sensitivity of receiver.

For cell phone, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, item (2) isn't under your control, so that won't be addressed further.

Item (1) has two components: transmit power (Watts) and antenna gain. Transmit power will have some upper limit set by either practical constraints (battery power?) or legal (FCC power limit on unlicensed transmitters). If there were no constraint, you could increase power output as needed, but at some point you run into human tissue heating safety concerns. One way you deal with that is to remove the antenna from the vicinity of the operator. With a cell phone, Bluetooth is one way to do this - you essentially replace the high power transmitter right next to your head with a low power link that allows you to place the cell phone at a safe distance from you. Or you can use a wired headset, same effect. Both these approaches help with the safety issue, but don't extend the range of the link.

In order to extend the link range, you can replace the transmit and/or receive antennas with higher gain devices. This isn't available with a cell phone, but is getting common with Wi-Fi.

Typically Wi-Fi antennas, both on router and PC or laptop have omni-directional patterns, in order to allow them to work equally well in all directions. But if you have control over a situation so that you don't need omni coverage, but only a link in a particular direction, you can use higher gain antennas that establish a "pencil beam" with all the energy concentrated instead of radiating 360 degrees. The degree to which you concentrate the beam is the same degree to which you extend the range.

Here are some ballpark numbers. A typical omni pattern has a gain around 3 dBi. Don't worry about the units if you aren't familiar; we'll work that out. You could use a Yagi-Uda array at one end or both, and the Yagi could easily have 10 dBi gain.

If the router remains omni and the receiver is outfitted with a 10 dBi antenna in lieu of a 3 dBi antenna, you increase the range by the difference, which is 7 dB (not dBi). That will just more than double your range.

If you use Yagis at both ends, you will increase the range by twice that 7 dB (7 dB at both ends of the link), so you will extend the range 14 dB, which increases the range by a factor of five. You have an added advantage from the point of view of operator safety here: the concentrated beam reduces the rf power incident upon the operator (unless you get in the way of the beam, in which case it gets worse, and you will lose your link, or lose range, anyway).

So in conclusion, if you are looking at a Wi-Fi link, higher gain antennas can increase your range while reducing your rf exposure, assuming you stay out of the beam. You used to be able to do something similar with automobile cell phone installations. The phone connected via coax to an externally mounted antenna. The externally mounted antenna had little more gain than the phone antenna, but by mounting it outside the car it was getting a stronger signal from the tower, and vice versa, plus it removed the rf transmission from your immediate vicinity. This all hinged on having low-loss coax to run between cell phone and external antenna. If you lost more in the coax than you gained from the external installation, the effort was wasted.

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#5

Re: Microwaves and Wireless Devices

02/05/2009 12:03 PM

NO.

How do I extend the interference range of a standard household microwave oven (say up to 50 feet) without causing harmful effects to humans? Not a microwave link, not a cell phone, not a wireless connection (i.e. router). A standard microwave oven.

UFG

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Microwaves and Wireless Devices

02/05/2009 2:21 PM

You want to use a microwave oven as a jammer???

Bad idea on a couple accounts:

1) Unless you have specialized test equipment to measure SAR (specific absorption rate), you won't know when you have exceeded the health concern limit. And even given that equipment, you have to know how to use it.

2) It's illegal to jam a cell phone. Don't think a microwave will do that, but if it were possible, it would be illegal. It may or may not be illegal to jam Wi-Fi or Bluetooth, but it doesn't sound like a good idea.

I can think of all kinds of ways to degrade the shielding effectiveness of a microwave oven, starting with the door, but I'm not going to go into details, for the above mentioned reasons.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Microwaves and Wireless Devices

02/13/2009 11:18 PM

I would have to agree with EMC_C... it is very dangerous to play with the that kind of radiation. I have now gotten rid of my microwave oven and wont get another one. It has saved me a lot of problems.

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