5w30 vs. 10w30 motor oil

No. Using a larger span for the oil weight is good when the temperature conditions you are driving in have an expanded range. The oil weight is really an expression of viscosity for temperature range. So, 50W oil has a better ability to remain viscous at higher temperatures than 10W oil. However, at low temperatures (i.e., winter), the 50W is too thick and the 10W better.

To help motorists out with this dilemma, oil companies formulate their oils so that they adapt to a wider temperature range. Long ago oils were sold with only a single weight. So, you had to choose the right weight for the season. Now you can buy oil that goes from 0W to 50W in the same bottle.

Personally, I don't think you father needs any advice! If he already has high miles and the car runs well, then he obviously has been doing the right thing all along. The best thing he can do is keep doing what he has been doing! There are some very good reasons for this philosophy and I can't go into it with detail, but he should not worry nor listen to anyone else's advice.

The only exception I would take to that advice is to not add oil additives! This always sparks a heated discussion, but trust me. If the additives really worked the oil companies would be clamoring to add them to their blend.

The difference between the 5W and 10W is that at lower temps the 5W will out flow the 10W. Since both are 30, they will both perform the same at operating temps. Sometimes people will go from a 30 to a 40 due to higher mileage and/or oil consumption issues. The theory is when a motor has higher mileage there is more wear or the clearences have gotten larger between the bearings and crankshaft. So they are looking for thicker film strength to help protect the bearings. In order to get from a 10W30 to a 10W40 oil companies add polymers to make the oil be 'thicker' at higher temps. these however had a tendency to shear into smaller particles and to form sludge and stick around the rings which caused more oil consumption. So depending on where your father lives, cold climates, the 5W30 could be appropriate particularly in the winter. If he lives in warmer climes I'd stick with the 10W30.

#'s 1 and 2 are essentially correct in their advise to stay with what has worked. I would add that, for your father to give such "street advise" any more than passing attention is inarguably a waste of his energy. The only "conclusion" that could be sustained for either the 5Winter or 10Winter option would be that there would be no reasonably conceivable way for your father to detect whether or not he had benefitted from chooosing either over the other. Accordingly, the only prudent course of action is to take no course of action, other than maintaining the already successful course of action.

Congratulations, you have successfully gotten the definitive answer you sought, in one of the shortest (least agonizing) forums in CR4 history.

David, the only thing that I will add is that it is a proven fact that the great majority of the wear to an engine occurs during a cold start because the oil has not reached the moving parts.

Approximately eighteen (18) years ago a firm did manufacture an auxiliary oil pump complete with a bypass valve that was activated the moment the ignition switch was turned on, and ran for approximately 2-3 seconds before the motor began to crank.

I remember when this item was designed and placed on the market. I do not think that it sold well due to its high price, and of course each unit was custom-plumbed and wired for the car that received it.

Since the manufacturer must support the vehicle's warranty, then one should stay with the lubricants recommended for the climate and service levels of the vehicle. I agree that the use of additives is generally not a good idea. Usually no harm done; just money down the drain.

Ing. Robert Forbus

A device like the one you are talking about was marketed some years ago for Cummins Diesel engines. This was an auxiliary oil pump integrated with the starter motor so that as the starter cranks the engine it would turn the auxiliary pump enough to build up some oil pressure before allowing fuel into the engine. There was also an external electric oil pump that did the same thing ("pre-lube") and also circulated oil to cool the turbo after engine shut down. Large stationary engines (Catrerpillar, EMD, etc.) usually have an external "pre-lube" pump for this purpose. Synthetic oils have a similar effect on the engine in that they have more residual lubricity before the engine builds up oil pressure and thus reduces the dry starts.

Anyone remember the Chevy Vega? It would not start till the oil light went out.It would turn the engine over till the oil pressure switch was made then send fire to the plugs.This was totally stock. HTRN

Where in Tarnation did you hear that one?!?! Did you give it any thought when you heard it?

UG

Been there; didn't do that.

My favorite oil for vehicles old and new regardless of weather is 20w50,

the heaviest grade available.

The ultimate goal is to Prevent metal to metal contact.

That is what causes wear.

You want the most viscous film on your cylinder walls

during operation and afterward when the oil drains down.

Granted this oil is thick, but

if your starter can crank through it, its the best way to go.

Ive used this stuff on three generations of cars so far

for over 30years now, and they last nearly forever.

This was recommended to me by an avid drag racer.

They know All about engine wear as they beat the crap out of em!

3KHP from a big block!

Dont discount the possibility that

the lighter oil grades are recommended by the car manufactureres

as they dont want your engine to last forever.

Theyre in business to sell cars, not serve motorists.

Ah, dont get me started!

Al D.

Being a mechanic for over 35 years I will say you need to get the best grade of oil and at this time it happens to be full synthetic oils such as Mobil 1 (pretty darn good) or Amsoil (the best out there). They have better adhesion, viscosity, and life span than any other oils. Of course any oil is only as good as the filtering mechanism to remove crud (carbon particles mainly ) out of the oil you are using. To this end many filter manufacturers are going to better technology and filtering finer things out. Now instead of 10-20 micron filters you can get at Amsoil 5 micron duel filtering systems. Instead of changing your oil all the time you change your filters. I ran my old suburban for 75k miles on the same oil and just changed filters and had the oil tested for quality at the company. I've got a friend who has over 500K on his old truck and is still on his same oil. The motor ran perfect in my suburban when I got rid of it but the body was falling apart. It costs 20 bucks to join Amsoil and then you can buy their stuff at wholesale. I wouldn't run anything else. One key though is that you have to have some miles on the motor befor you put the stuff in or the motor won't break in properly. Roy Blizzard, AlphaTerra Engineering, Inc

I have 2 hondas(88 and 90) with a total of over a half-millon miles between them.Always used 10w-30w Castrol.Removed valve cover on one at 200,000..no sludge, real clean.Same story on other one at over 300,000.

I changed oil at 3000 to 4000 mi., replaced filter every time.No additives.

My 2002 Honda calls for 5w20, and that's what I will use, in Castrol, till it goes belly up....Factory recommends 7500 mile interval for oil change, but I am sticking with the 3-4k interval.

I would probably argue against changing to synthetic oil if it is not the oil you currently use. The reason is that I have seen a large number of cars develop leaky seals after going to synthetic. The synthetic oil does a much better job at scrubbing dirt and debris off of the engine and its seals. The seals tend to depend on this gummy dirt to keep the oil on the inside of the engine. Even though it is a superior oil you need to weigh the benefits with the risks. I had this happen to one of my cars and I just replaced all the gaskets and seals after they started to leak. After they were replaced I had no problems with synthetic, but that was a performance car and I am just anal.

Amsoil is an excellent oil!

The other reason to not get radical is simply that the car is doing fine with the diet and care that it gets now and probably will continue to run fine for a long, long time to come.

I have a 2000 mitsubishi montero sport with over 150,000 miles.I bought it use in 2003 with already 61,000 miles.Since then I use synthetic oil 5w30 at 4 to 5000 mile oil change interval and last year I switch to 5w20 penzoil synthetic.Engine is much quieter at start up runs like brand new.Still no leak whatsoever found.Ever since when I got my sport just check oil between 2000 to 2500 mile interval and add like half quart of oil not bad.I would stick to 5w20 my goal is to keepthe truck until it reach 300,miles.

In may of 1978 Popular Science had a great and quite technical article on this subject. And in April of 1976 the same publication had an article on MOBIL 1 and other synthetics. The conclusions were quite to the point with lots of data for back up.

Synthetic OIL is the way to go. Regular oil oxidizes and the result is what is called sludge.

The old rule of thumb or recommended 3000 miles / oil change relates to the oxidation, breakdown or evaporation of regular oils and additives. The higher the operating temperature of the engine the faster the degradation of regular oil

Synthetics simply DO NOT degrade at engine temperatures.

As an engineer I wanted to see for myself so I put synthetic oil in a new 1976 Saab 2.0 and drove it to close to 100K and changed the oil every 25,000 miles and the filer every 3000 miles. I became a believer when I tore the engine down for a complete inspection. Bear in mine at this point I had rebuilt 3 complete engines and worked on many more. I knew what sludge was. The Saab engine had NO sludge. the parts were in new condition. You could still see the original radial honing in the cylinder bores.

I reassembled the engine and drove it another 120K and still and near original compression when the body was too beat by road salt to keep it going after 16 years.

I still use a wide range synthetic in my saab turbo which has 225+k miles.

I recommend your father do everything you have seen on this board, because everyone is right and everyone is also wrong; so if your father has plenty of time and nothing to do, he has nothing to lose and nothing to gain by trying them all.

you are damn smart.......

When you wade thru all the stuff about 20W50(don't please) to only use this or that product as it is the only oil or oil filter that works nothing else does. Just tell your Dad you are doing just fine. Stick with what you have been using because it works for you. As long as you use the right weight oil for the climate you are in and a quality filter, which is most major brands, you won't go wrong.

Converting from using 10W to 5W oil on a high mileage vehicle makes absolutely no sense, unless...unless he can magically turn back the hands of time and make all those miles go away, and once again have an engine with very low mileage (and wear) in his old car. The Someone who told you that, should also have told you he was referring to relatively new, recent year vehicles. The reason for lower viscosities is primarily for fuel savings...and to make mileage test and claims for new vehicles valid. Because of newer oil formulations, thinner oils can sustain stresses that once would require a heavier oil. Thus the 10W standard fell to 5W on new cars starting in the 80's-90's...about the time that more stringent mileage-per-gallon standards came into effect. The stuff about getting the oil to the top doesn't make much sense on balance. Even if we accept that the thinner oil might reach the top quicker (accept it against evidence that it might not pump as efficiently or any more efficiently through the impeller) we would also have to weigh that against the fact that the thinner (and very hot) oil, will also drain back down (leaving less residual top-engine lubrication) quicker and more completely between engine stops and starts. So the best answer is: insofar as "any truth" could be known, the answer is: there's no credible truth to what Someone told you. Just sounds like one of those things people conjure up because it sounds good, and then pass on to others who do likewise, until there's yet another oil mythology making the rounds. And oil product purveyors make lots of money on oil mythologies...just like fuel purveyors make money on plus, plus plus, premium, premium plus, super plus plus premium...and so forth, ad naseum.

You are right about the milage factors, but the oil pumps I have seen are gear-type pumps, which are positive displacement types.It doesn't matter what viscosity the oil is, 1 revolution will move the same amount of oil, however, a heavier oil will be harder to move, thus the milage improvement.It only makes a very small difference in milage, however, the manufacterers are trying to squeeze every fraction of a mpg for their ratings.

My 2002 Honda was built with 5W 20 in mind from the drawing board, and has closer clearances to allow for this.If it starts to consume a little, as time goes on, I may change to a heavier viscosity oil.

Viscosity has very little to do with the "clinging" ability of an oil to the metal parts.This is determined on a molecular level , varying with the type metal, surface finish, etc.

Some people relate the viscosity of an oil to it's actual weight.This is not true.

Weight is the specific gravity, viscosity is the internal molecular friction of the fluid.

Most oils WEIGH essentially the same, even with a wide variation in Viscosity.

There are many ways to rate the viscosity, and sae is only one of them.

SSU is another one.(Saybolt-Seconds-Universal)

The Viscosity Index is a measure of how much the viscosity changes with temperature.

A someone already said, whatever works for you......Go for it.

To sum up:-

1) Use the grade(s) recommended by the engine manufacturer, otherwise you may get warranty problems.

2) Use synthetic oil, its fantastic.

3) Only use the original engine manufacturer oil filter as the pressure relief valve is in the filter most times and other manufacturers do not always get it right. Again a possible warranty problem.

4) Do not do too many extra miles on an oil change, unless the warranty has already expired on the engine!

Nothing to do with oil, but only use original brake parts, other manufacturers parts make brake well, but usually the discs wear out far quicker than they should. The financial difference is usually not worth it anyway.....and when new discs are needed at a far lower mileage, the savings are really gone!!

Good points...with some exceptions in the case (at least) of American manufactured and branded vehicles.

1) As stated

2) Do not use synthetics or semi-synthetics during the engine break-in period. The friction reducing characteristics of petroleum based standard oils (not of petroleum based semi-synthetics--many so-called synthetics are actually semi-synthetics) is required for break-in. After the first one or two oil changes at the specified schedule, you can change over to synthetic. If synthetics are used in order to achieve extended change intervals, bear in mind that more contaminants may accumulate in the filter--resulting in possible by pass if the filter gets too impeded. To prevent this, the filter, when it's mounted port-side-up, can be changed between oil changes to minimize the chance of filter bypass. This would be especially the case when change to syntetic is done on a higher mileage vehicle--because the syntetic oil detergents are likely to carry large amounts of sludge deposits to the filter that were not removed by the non-synthetic oil. Between-oil-change filter replacements will require "sacrifice" of the quart or so of oil in the filter to be replaced with new oil.

3) All name brand filters will work at least as well, possibly better, than the mfr recommended brand. By law, filter brand has no bearing on warranty. All spin-on filters, including the original mfr supplied filter, have integrated by-pass valves. Again, no lawful warranty denial in the U.S.

4) The key, from a warranty standpoint, is to change oil at not less than the mfr recommended periodicity. Change more often under severe use conditions is a good practice--severe conditions include: stop and go driving; trailer load pulling; extreme temperatures; dusty conditions; long trips; etc.

5) As to brake components, in particular, pads (and shoes):

At least on "new" American manufactured/branded vehicles at first brake renewal, do not replace with original equipment pads or shoes. New vehicles are fitted with the lowest cost brake pads/shoes possible and generally are intended to need replacement within a very short time--depending on use, possibly as few as 35,000 to 10,000 miles, possibly less. Always specifiy metallic brakes for a new vehicle's first brake pad/shoe renewal (Mfr brand or that of a reputable after market mfr). These will generally be good for the normal life of the vehicle--whereas original brake pad/shoe types will require changes fairly frequently over the life of the vehicle. Installing metal (50k+ warranted) brake pads/shoes will involve a substantial additional cost, but will result in more than substantial savings over the standard life of the vehicle, and beyond. (In the U.S., standard (government accepted) vehicle (engine/drive train) life is 100,000 miles.)

This is not about oil, but you brought up brakes, and the worst service I ever got from brakes was when I did not do the job myself.The front were disk, and the rear were drum.The mechanic replaced both, but reversed the primary and secondary shoes on the rear.This resulted in premature pad wear on the front.

After the second set of pads wore out rather quickly, I disassembled the rear and found the problem.After I made the correction, the after market pads lasted longer than the originals. Just a point to watch for if your pads seem to wear out too quickly.It takes all 4 brakes to stop a car efficiently.

Check a chilton manual to make sure the rear shoes are properly oriented.

Its amazing the differences between europe and the USA, I believe 'some' of what was written by guest, but he is completely wrong if you are for example driving a Diesel Motor from VW, they have been supplied with Synthetic oil already in when the motor is brand new since about the year 2000!!! Why? Its the best for VW Dieselmotors at ALL stages in their life because of the relatively small size of the engines and the relatively high power outputs (upto 150 BHP from a 1.9 TDI motor!) and compressions (Crankshaft pressure from the conrod bearing when the fuel explodes, diesel explodes and gives sudden pressure changes. Vital is good lubrication for long bearing life.)

I am sure that VW is not alone in this requirement!! The engine manual will state categorically the oil type by part number. (Part numbers are used by the oil companies on their products to show compatability with engine manufacturers and testing. Very small print somewhere on the oil bottle!).

A thinner oil of any type will always get to the bearings quicker on a start, which is why it would be better if an engine only started once the oil was doing its job! When re-building engines years ago, we would have an oil pressure gauge fitted and remove an ignition wire and crank the engine till the pressure gauge showed good oil pressure! But if you did this today, you might damage the Catalytic converter if petrol got into it.....On Diesels you could still do it! Or stop the petrol being injected in some way during this time....

After 17 years of using ONLY Synthetic oil on about 10 different cars with both diesel & Petrol (All injection) engines, I will not use anything else.....including a 2 liter petrol engine that was run on Agri petrol while on holiday in Italy that the Mafia illegally sells as "Super" ...... The engine blew all the cooling water out going up the mountains, but still managed to later achieve over 300,000 KM (a further 140,000KM), when the car was sold, in a perfect running condition 3 years later! Í did not even need to lift the head! I can tell you more if anyone wishes about this incident in 1995, just ask me.

Also guest makes a bad mistake on what the extra properties of synthetic oil is against normal oil - the differences in lubrication are only marginally better than normal oil (the rest is only manufacture Hype - 'new engines not running in' which he seems to believe! That is utter rubbish as any synthetic oil company or engine manufacturer will tell you). Where synthetic is far better is that it simply evaporates in areas of very high temperatures/Stress, whereas normal oil forms hard deposits.....which of course land in the filter! Basically the opposite of what he says.....

You can test this out by placing a few drops (not more!) of each oil type, sperately on a metal plate and heating it up with a gas torch from underneath the plate. (Do this outside, do not breathe the fumes produced). That will convince you very quickly of the need to use synthetic oil! (In fact the only engine that I know of that should not use synthetic oil is the old air cooled VW Beetle motor! I have never experimented to find out if that is actually true though....There might be others of course, but they will be very old designs. The Beetle motor was designed in the late 1930's under Hitler!).

At least in europe, because of the way the laws are made, the standard brake parts from the original manufacturer are better suited to the original discs. I have actually still been able to see the original machining on the disc after more than 100,000 KM on some cars, which demonstrates a very low wear rate....The brakes were always fantastic and I had only used one set of pads, but I do drive relatively carefully and reduce speed early as well! And brake 'Glassing' is a thing of the past.....which is what a lot of people STILL believe in, but since asbestos is not used anymore AND all cars have servos........its a thing of the past!

It is not hard to understand that talk of cars can rouse emotions in some...even to the point of losing objectivity and, when the effort is directed primarily at demonstrating all one knows, to the point of losing sight of what the discussion was intended to accomplish. It is less easy to understand why such a person would need (as it were) to defend his position to the death, and engage in hurling insults, against another who stated, not disagreement, but support for the points which that person had made! A reasonable and sedate mind will quickly grasp that there are exceptions which, but for their being exceptions, could rebut any point. It would also have percieved, in the present instance: that the original question was with regard to Otto, not Deisel, engines, and to typical, not exceptional cars; that nothing was said to suggest disregarding manufacturer specifications for the relatively rarer car makes that are not "factory equipped" with non-synthetic oil; that is was never stated that all new cars, no matter the price, will be factory fitted with least-cost brake pads... Nor was it stated that synthetic oil producers will never hype their product; but it could have been said that the authority upon which the recommendation to "run in" a typical (i.e., petroleum oil specified) engine was none other than a supposed self-hyping true synthetic oil manufacturer; in fact, one of the premier, if not the premier synthetic oil manufacturer. (So it would not be Guest but, rather, would be that manufacturer who is "totally wrong" in recommending break in with specified petroleum oil before converting to use of (their) synthetic.) Finally, a thoughtful mind will understand that to hold so rigidly to one's own understanding and experience as to see insult or threat in, or be compelled to defend against, any other point of view, no matter how innocuous, is both presently and ultimately self defeating. Which is to say: that to the degree that Andy must disprove or abase Guest in order to be singularly in the right, no matter what, then Guest will have gained additional new knowledge from what Andy has added; but Andy will have learnt nothing beyond what he already knew! Accordingly, Guest stands behind the validity of all he stated, and also takes no issue with the additional (pertinent) points that Andy has added.

Well said.

...although I would like to nitpic with you on your third and 6th points, respectively, as in my own experience... (wink)

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE!!!

This was my first post and has been quite a learning experience!!!

My father (who is 80 yrs old) did switch to the 5w30. However, I've printed off the responses to show him all of you advice!!

Thanks, again!!

Darvin

The most damaging wear compnoents in oil are invisible.The dark color of used oil is caused by the fuel of the engine.I have seen LP powered industrial fork lifts with 500 hours on the oil, and the oil looked like new.It must be changed, however, because the abrasive components are still circulating in the oil.What you don't see can hurt your engine.

Dear "Guest", if you were so sure of your position, you would not appear as "Guest".......which anyone can use and remain "hidden"!!!!!

The points I made were not taken out of the clouds above my head, they were the results of many years experience and usage with many different cars and manufacturers.....

Furthermore, following these points that I made will NOT result in either a loss of warranty, nor will it increase wear on any component mentioned.....surely that is the only way to go with such expensive things like cars.....better safe than sorry.

The small amounts of money saved by not following this advice could possibly result in much heavier costs later...

So please Mr or Mrs or Miz Guest, please join CR4 fully. Thanks in advance. Isn`t it the best place in the world to discuss and defend your position? There is nowhere better! Long may CR 4 rule!

All GUESTS are not the same.Do not confuse this by thinking that all comments by "Guest" are from same person.

I am a registered user, but when I check my e-mail from a remote computer, the cookies and login info are not nescessarily saved.In the interest of speed, sometimes I make comments as "Guest".Sorry about the confusion.The purpose is not to obfuscate my identity, simply speed.

HiTekRedNek(AKA sometimes,GUEST)

To which guest are you replying?

You should append your reply to the person to whom you are talking.

It appears you are replying to my post, yet addressing me as guest.

Please clarify.I am the guest that posted number 13 only.

What this means is, click reply within the message box to which you want to respond, not the one at the bottom or elsewhere in the discussion post threads. Hope this helps.

The real guest.

He might have noted your location under your avatar, and jumped to a conclusion?

Methinks the man doth protest too much.

Else, he'd let his words stand, not needing to solicit alliances to boster points with which no one disagrees. Pity the soul which dares not take yes, or no, agree or disagree, for an answer.

Is this the best place (way) to discuss and defend? Due to the nature of on-line discussion panels, probably not.

That is all. Please, go in peace.

Thier is an oil ring on the piston that keeps oil out of the cylinder head (combustion chamber) this ring will hold enough oil for startup 5w to 10w has all to do with temp engines determine the oil by bearing clearance and so on but yes 5w30 the viscosity is less then 10w30 i would stay with the oil i have always run, just run a quality oil.If you live in a area that has very cold winters it wouldnt hurt to run 5w30 in the cold months.

I always argued out the spanned between the weights of the oil, if a 5W30 is used the span may not let the viscosity index improver's last as long as an oil with less of a spanned in the weight of the oil.

I am sure that the correct "Guest" knows who I was addressing...

I fully understand what Guest means and implies and to any other "Guest" who thought that I was addressing them personally - "if the cap fits, then wear it!!"

Caps? On their feet? If you don't mind, guests or anyone else will wear the caps they choose, and as they choose. Maybe someone should take off the gloves that fit, so he can get a better grip.

Re: 5w30 vs. 10w30 motor oil Pardon me sir.Inasmuch as you have expressed your opinion about this forum very succintly and eloquently, allow me to return the favor.These forums do tend to wander somewhat from the original topic, and sometimes go of off on a tangent.Personal opinions are included and respected by other users of this forum,whether or not we agree, and we move on eventually to the matter at hand. Now as for my opinion about your opinion of this forum:If you do not like it, you are free to leave. A mature individual would have done that, without comment.

Ev