Cedar Oil / Silicon Wood Preservative

I watched the video at the link you gave--I am fairly impressed and would like to get some to try.

Have done some surfing and have found numerous papers and patents relative to silicon/silicone/silane wood preservation techniques. This says nothing for or against the above product, but it does indicate positive results in general for certain silane solutions.

http://www.ncsu.edu/bioresources/BioRes_03/BioRes_03_4_1303_Ghosh_MM_Decay_Resis_Treated_Wood_Silicones_313.pdfa

Surely SOMEONE has experience with a variant of this technique ?????????????

No but this stuff is used in NZ to treat plantation grown pine and is supposed to be pretty good. VACSOL® LOSP Plantation grown pine as used extensively in the building industry today, has little natural durability compared with traditional native hardwood construction timbers. VACSOL® LOSP (Light Organic Solvent Preservative) technology, however, can be used to extend the service of today's construction timbers by recreating natures defence mechanism against decay and insect attack. VACSOL® products are clear, solvent based preservatives, in which white spirits acts as the carrier, ensuring rapid and effective penetration of the active ingredients into the sapwood. Unlike water based systems, VACSOL® does not swell timber, therefore high quality moulded products may be machined before treatment. On-site protection from rainfall may also be achieved by the addition of VACSAL® WR water repellent system. VACSOL® Benefits Treatment performed on completion of all machining and profiling No swelling of profiled timber VACSOL® products do not discolour the water Addition of water repellent system improves dimensional stability No wastage of preservative solutions No measurable increase in weight once dry No waste disposal problems with sawdust or shavings FRAMECOAT® Water repellent is a polymer emulsion which is applied directly to untreated timber to provide a protective coating from the timber processing plant through to final construction. The Addition of the VACSOL® Water repellent system to VACSOL® products provides onsite protection from rainfall

ceder is a very popular wall covering for close closets especially in the north west

where i grew up some 50 years ago it has a delghtfull smell both in the closet and ceder

chest and walking in the woods

enjoy

Hi,

look at penetration depth if you want to be sure there are neither fungus nor insect attacks likely.

I have no doubt that this material works pretty well.

But if only the surface is protected then the rot may be inside.

RHABE

Thanks all......coconutpete, Kilgore Trout, larry16, RHABE

Intend to dive in there with some form of this silane-based stuff. Will report findings.

Interesting thread--

Are you doing research or looking for a product to use?

I have been interested in the subject for some time:

This is a Blue Pine slab(Ponderosa) with Envirotex Lite® on it.

A really interesting wood is Juniper(Oregon)--If Cedar is good withstanding the elements naturally--Juniper is amazing. It will petrify rather than rot and there are tons of little chunks of it around there. I picked some dead branches up(that may have been on the ground for quite a few years) and the grey surface color sands away to a buckskin color with very little effort.

I have spent some time trying to understand wood from producing to consuming it(less technical and more practical standpoint). I have heard(and believe) that if you treat cedar it causes it to breakdown sooner than untreated--I'm sure it depends on what you use, but it is interesting to see the Petri-wood product you posted.

I will look forward to hearing the results. K T

Both.

Should these guys be on the up and up, the idea of trapping cellular water in a silicate dessicant and then sealing the pores with silicone sounds promising.

I intend to build a home using Structural Insulated Panels (SIPS) which are expanded polystyrene or polyurethane sandwiched between two Oriented Strand Board (OSB) sheets.

The OSB is the weak component as it swells and delaminates with long term exposure to water or water vapor. Termites love the stuff. Sealants won't do the job because they will eventually crack. OSB is incompatible with CCA/ACQ pressure treatment.

Thus, the search for a paint on/roll on/dip penetrant that does lethal harm with extreme prejudice to termites and fungi and seals against water or water vapor intrusion.

I'll order a gallon of this Petri-Wood stuff and put it through the wringer. A coated 4 x 8 sheet of 7/16" OSB left outside the remainder of the winter should tell the tale. I know for a fact, if left uncoated, this would result in a pile of mush.

Great looking table.

This sounds great to me I'm looking for a green product to treat my Douglas Fir frames with, this fits the bill i will be pleased to hear your experiences. Look at : greenwoodfutures.co.uk

Hey Treepirate........

take a look at the main site and links too at www.cedarshield.ca as they certainly know all about this stuff and how good it is. I know it has been tested by some major universities in the USA and quoted as being "The best, deepest penetrating and most effective product to hit the lumber industry in the last century." So, they seem to be more than impressed and it has certainly taken off across Northern America.

It may be tough to get it to work on the OSB--Don't they seal one side of it(it would no doubt be the side that is out)?

Who manufactures the panels? I wonder if contacting them might a good idea--to give them information about your needs? It may help them refine their product and you may find what they have done and what they can do for you. Now is a good time anyway.

If you coat especially the periphery - as there the are most easily attacked - and extend the test until next fall beside a termite hive then this will be the next step to show durability.

Worst case test may be: let the lower part be wet by immersing in water and let the rest exposed to local weather.

RHABE

treepirate, Kilgore Trout, RHABE.............read and understood, folks. Many thanks.

The SIP manufacturer R-Control offers a borate based dip that fends off the bugs and fungi, but doesn't help vapor intrusion.

One gallon...$55.00....on order. OSB at Lowe's not far away.

See you next year.......or sooner if it turns out to be a bust.

I assume that this borate based dip is some form of boric acid or its salts.

These are much cheaper, search for fertilizer and boric acid.

Boric acid is an essential plant nutrient and is added if soils are deficient of boron.

At the same time boric acid is used as a cockroach poison and fungicide.

In the decades 1880 to 1920 boric acid was also used as preservative for almost any food, until excessive used caused some few poisonings and the upcoming refrigerator relieved the necessity of preservatives and the officials banned further use.

Now some people think that boric acid may be an essential human (mammal) nutrient too, no proof today, definitely no poisoning at milligramme level, 20mg/day of HBO3 recommended by the supporters.

As seawater contains some boron and will not do any harm if total sodium-chloride consumption is within acceptable limits I decided to take some regularly - in parallel to selenium where I have a severe deficit if not adding much more than recommended and strontium where I do not feel any benefits. Strontium is bringing benefits to bone strength.

Some tests with boron derived medications in cancer treatment are under way, so wait and see.

RHABE

Interesting you mention protection from termites as they are easily prevented from consuming wood. A termite will not cross rock, block or brick to go from ground to wood.

OSB is not designed for continuous exposure, cover it with Tyvek, felt or other barrier material.

Believe it or not buttermilk mixed with cornstarch is an effective wood sealer Protectant before paint.

http://www.granitgard.com.au/blockaid.htm

see: extracts of Eremophilia

Thanks, bwire. Yes, OSB is rated Exposure 1 only which is a limitation I'd like to eliminate. Not as a means of eliminating felt or house wrap but as overkill.

The plan is to use the "rain screen" approach to siding, wherein an air plenum is provided and allowed to equalize pressure between inside and out. Less moisture intrusion and what does get in has a means of evaporating out.

Should the felt or house wrap fail, I'm looking for a Plan B.

I've been communicating with UK wood spec organisations who are very dubious about this products claims, so I got in touch with Petri-wood's tech department who are very keen to go global with it.The claims sound very attractive, particularly that it replaces free and bound water in green timber with a silica deposit which seal the cells in the wood from further water uptake, ie it stops osmosis. The Juniper derived Cedar oil sounds effective as a natural insecticide. IF they are right this could seriously revolutionise timberbuild and eco build. So guys check it out but use your sceptical head, i still think the science adds up, but some good old evidence would be nice to see.

It is derived from Juniper?

These frames were made from branches I picked off the ground underneath each of these ancient trees in the paintings--I would guess that they had been laying there for more than 15 years. If you have never smelled the the wood, you should--It is heavenly--way spicier than Cedar. I love working with it--It's a challenge, but I think it rivals Myrtlewood.

My thoughts exactly, treepirate.

Terrific artwork, Kilgore.

Just read your message on the net and yes I not only know of this product but actually use it professionally and sell it all across Canada. I have been in the timber treatments industry for over thirty years and am qualified in both entomology andmycology and believe me when I say, these products ( Especially Petri-Wood ) are light years ahead of anything else available on the planet. We can safely pressure inject timber ulility poles and give them a written 30 year guarantee against ALL forms of rot, fungal decay, damage by water and moisture and attack by wood destroying insects such as termites, carpenter ants and powder post beetle. If you need to know any more then plse feel free to contact me direct on: arimel@shaw.ca

For those genuinely interested, two of these unique products, namely Petri-Wood and Cedar-Shield, are unlike anything else currently available on the planet. We are using the product through a UK manufactured pressure injection system to successfully preserve heavy sectioned timbers and having used another UK product called K4 Boron for many years, I have to say that these new cedar oil based products hold the safe and environmentally friendly answer to numerous timber issues. They have been scientifically shown to actually trigger the first stages of wood petrification when they are applied correctly to timbers and yes, they do completely eliminate all bound and inherart moisture and almost instantly resture the dimensional and structural stability of the wood. The end result is, the wood is protected from all types of rot, fungal attack, moisture and even standing water, mildew, mould and attack by wood destroying insects including termites and carpenter ants. It even stops warping, cupping and splitting of the timber after treatment. These products are set to change the way people think about timber preservation in the future.

Thanks all. Test started, will post photos as time allows.

Now here's the big question..........why is the stuff, given that it has but two ingredients (cedar oil and dimethylpolysiloxane), so expensive ($55 US per gallon)?

The 4 x 8 sheet of OSB (split into two pieces, one test specimen, one control) being used in the test cost $7 US. Two thorough coatings, both sides and edges of the 4 x 4 test specimen, used up a half gallon applied with roller and tray.

A huge market exists in preserving OSB, but not if the preservative costs four times more than the substrate.

This stuff works and that's a fact. For OSB and deck and board walks too, it is normally applied with an airless spray gun and by the way, it does have more than just two ingredients. Try squeezing a Texas Cedar tree yourself and see how much cedar oil you can get out of it, then you'll know why it costs so much per gallon. We are hoping to be speaking with OSB manufacturers very soon to evaluate if their manufacturing process will accept the fluid with no adverse affects on what it does. Once we know this, then it would be a much more cost effective process for them to use it, as it would be purchased in bulk and not at retail prices. For the guy above building him home, he would not require as much as he probably thinks as all it needs is a decent application using an airless spray gun and that should suffice. I have seen how it has cared for a heavy sectioned timber, treated then left standing in sea water for 2 years and as I said above, this stuff works.

"We are hoping to be speaking with OSB manufacturers very soon to evaluate if their manufacturing process will accept the fluid with no adverse affects on what it does."...arimel

We? Who are "we" and when do "we" expect results? Could you possibly post your credentials?

By the way, I am the originator of this thread, the engineer that is conducting the test, and "the guy above building his home".

Well Hi to the guy building his home. ``We`` are a company called Cansco Environmental Solutions Inc based in Ontario and BC and I am a Director with the company. I am qualified in Entomology and Mycology and certified by the Institute of Timber Sciences. I also have an MBA and BSc which in all honesty has nothing at all to do with this thread. My company are the sole Agents and Distributors for all of the products manufactured by Cedar Oil Industries of Texas and we are very happy with the results these products have provided. I am currently working with the Canadian Industrial Research unit at UBC on further development on these products including a Petri-Wood and Boron formula which is mixed with a resin compound to treat and repair timbers which have been damaged by coniophora puteana, wet rot. Hopefully, this information may be of some assistance to you.

Once again, you mentioned mass production treatment of OSB....when can we expect this to be on the market?

Very persistant, i agree entirely, if this is as good as it says ethically it should be fast tracked into production and availability globally. Because it would make homegrown timber more valuable than tropical hardwoods, as the cost/energy of transport & conversion and drying of timber would be nil. This would be a major contribution towards rainforest protection and reducing carbon dioxide in the atmosphere at the local level. So come on hard facts please! I have read all the documents from Petri-wood's scientific research, the KES report etc, still they are not conclusive, with tanalising of timber being less than effective and polluting soils etc there is a moral duty to get this out their. Or is this just another sales gimmick promo?

Totally agree with everything you say Treepirate. I for one am convinced this stuff should be out there and as quickly as possible. I have been in contact with the Canadian Government on this and they did send an email back saying they were passing the information I sent them on to the Minister of Forest and Range and that his office may get in touch with me if they want more information. It is all a slow process and as you said, we could save literally thousands of trees worldwide. Keep up the good work and I will join you in the fight forward.

Must conclude that this "arimel" poster is a less than reliable source. Will continue the testing and direct contact with SIP suppliers and manufacturers. Will also pursue the topic with Texas A&M directly.

Message:
Product: PetriWood, Cedar Oil Industries. A Texas red cedar oil and dimethylpolysiloxane liquid touted as a wood preservative and dimensional stabilizer.

Question: Has the above or any variations thereupon been tested or is being considered for testing as a means of preventing mold, termite, or water degradation of oriented strand board? I have no affiliation with the above or any other company or product. I am simply concerned over OSB's obvious weaknesses, particularly relative to its use in SIP panels. I am also familiar with all standard practices to combat those weaknesses such as felt, house wrap, and rain screen siding techniques, as well as certain borate treatments. Thank you for your time.

Edwin C. Turner
Structural Engineer

Reply:
We reviewed the manufacture's website and other sources and could not find any evidence to suggest that the product has been tested to American Wood Protection Association Test Methods or ICC Acceptance Criteria in regards to the effectiveness of preventing mold, termite, or water degradation on any Engineered Wood Product.

Regards,
Merritt Kline
Product Support Specialist
Wood Products Support Help Desk
APA
Southern Forest Products Association
253-620-7400 (phone)
253-565-7265 (fax)
merritt.kline@apawood.org
www.APAwood.org
www.SouthernPine.com

What are the results of your study with OSB?

Well just ran across your forum gentleman and its very good news to see people talking about our product. Simple answers for simple minds. Go to Dow cornings site www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/63-1035-01.pdf and you will find the results of SILANE FLUIDS not only on wood but concrete as well, then when mixed with our Cedar Oil Formula you now have what The University of New Brunswick call the beginning stages of wood petrification.PERIOD! ARGUE ALL YOU WANT THOSE ARE THE FACTS. Texas A & M archaeological Dept. calls it the silver bullet the industry has been looking for. Catalogued in the U.S.D.A.'s Federal Bio Preferred Program for wood products. Petri-wood is a solvent treatment not an aqueous based product. Solvents will instantly displace free water from the fiber structure of wood. Where there is no moisture, there are no issue's...

Some of you are asking or wandering why isnt this product all over the place. We would love for it to be, but can you say "HELLO LOBBIEST" ALONG WITH BIG CHEMICAL COMPANIES WHO ARE DOING EVERY THING THEY CAN TO KEEP US OUT OF THE MARKET.

For those who do not understand the Science behind the product, simply look up Petrified wood and you will see that it all starts because of natural silanes.

If you don't believe our results and info. try it for yourself what better testimonial could you receive. www.petri-wood.com

Good comments from Guest, or was it Robert or Dave maybe? Either way, I can say for sure that Petri-Wood does all that it claims and more. If you are in Canada, you should visit www.cedarshield.ca then click on wood preservatives, or click the home page link that will take you to read some articles on it and other similar products. Compared to any and all other wood preservatives currently available, Petr-Wood provides the deepest penetration, the best protection and the longest lasting remedy currently available on the planet. It is all natural to boot, so how good can it get? Even the ancient Egyptians used Cedar Oil to preserve their wooden sarcophagus and to dip the bandages that they used to wrap their mummies. It worked for them as we now know and with the silanes included, it works even better today.

Robert

Yes.....and what ?

Hey Texas Bob and Dave....these products really rock big time.

CDON'T LIKE IT!

I recently tried Cedar Shield on a playground set I'm making for my kids. The wood is Douglas fir.

One: It isn't protecting against mildew and only after a week or so of being

TRIPLE coated

Two: Gives a nasty chemical burn if allowed to be in contact with skin for prolonged period. It got under my watch band and under a suspender strap when I had a treated beam on my shoulder and the burns I got were most unpleasant.

Three: Attracts honey bees.

On the up side, it does seem to keep the wood from warping once applied.

Still, if it won't control mildew I don't see how it can prevent dry rot. I think I want my money back.

Hope this helps!

Total BS.........as I have been using it too and it does stop mildew when I use it. Also, I have had my hands and arms up to the elbows in a five gallon pail of this product on an almost daily basis, filling up smaller plastic bottles. It has never given me any adverse reactions of any kind...unless making my skin softer and smoother is a hazard. Finally, it really surprises me that suddenly Honey Bees have evolved to like the smell of Cedar as normally they hate it when it's at such a strong level... Oh well...we live and learn eh?

If this replaces water in wood can it be used in place of kiln drying? What is the moisture content of the wood after treatment? That should be an easy quick test of the manufacturer's claims. Get a piece of green wood and test its moisture content. Treat it with the cedar oil/silicone product, after treatment test moisture content again. If it displaces all moisture content, we can quit kiln drying and pressure treating wood. This would "wood" be better.

CedarShield, which I think is similar to Petriwood shows their product wicking up through a 4x4 on their video. I just bought er ordered a sawmill and ran across this product while looking for kiln drying plans. I'm going to try it, but I don't get the mill until January. I'm going to be cutting some larger timbers and have been puzzling how to dry them efficiently. If this is true, it'd be just the ticket.

This link is the report of independent testing cedar shield or petriwood by independent analysts. They tested only the insect and rot preventative, not the drying and warp prevention. www.avalonloghomes.com/documents/benefits-using-cedarcide.pdf

I bought a gallon of Cedar Shield and treated a piece of oak tree branch. Treatment consisted of a 4 inch long piece of green tree limb set in a cat food can minus cat food with a 1/4" of Cedar Shield. I cut a second piece to use as a control. I left the piece in the can for roughly 45 minutes during which the Cedar Seal penetrated 75% of the wood's length. I then put the treated piece on a paper plate in my kitchen. By the next day after the treatment had permeated the entire length. I then let it and the control piece set for a week and a half.

Not having a moisture meter, I enlisted my brothers assistance. Moisture tests with a moisture meter showed 6 percent moisture. Moisture test for the control showed 12 % moisture. I have no idea whether the moisture meter was calibrated accurately, but the test did show that the Cedar Shield appreciable reduced wood moisture in a relatively short period. The wood looked pretty much the same, maybe a little darker, as the non-treated piece and had a slight solvent oder, other wise it appeared no different.

Just an update. At 3 weeks the treated piece, with my newly purchased moisture meter, measured 0 percent moisture, the untreated piece measured 11%. That's right - "ZERO PERCENT" moisture! My desk - untreated and roughly 10 years old - measured 3 percent moisture.

Both pieces of wood were left in my kitchen at room temperature during the drying period. I haven't tested the rot resistance or anti warping yet. I also intend to check the ability of wood to hold varnish and resistance to water marking. But this stuff seems to work as advertised for drying wood.

Where can I buy such wonderful product to preserve my deck and cabin? LSV

For all the dingos and disbelievers out there, the recent figures shows that the Cedar wood product manufactures in Texas sold just over 2 million gallons in the last 14 months, so it makes me wonder why some of these big users keep on going back to buy this supposed snake oil......if it doesn't do all that is claims ?? It is also selling big in Australia and has been specified for a multi BILLION dollar US military contract in Guam too. Boy...from what you guys have said about this stuff, all these people buying it on a regular basis and in volume must be nuts.

Any more news on this product yet? Have you finally discovered it really does work? The company are now selling close to 2 million gallons per year so someone must like it eh?

The Wood after treatment stains, glues (latex wood glue), and varnishes (oil based varnish) without a hitch. Also it reduces warping - even cottonwood treated with this stuff doesn't warp, and it seems to reduce splitting while drying unless put into too dry an area, ie. wood heat. Wood even dries when stripped outside, uncovered, even with periodic rain on the stack. Tear down your kiln - this stuff works.

The Wood after treatment stains, glues (latex wood glue), and varnishes (oil based varnish) without a hitch. Also it reduces warping - even cottonwood treated with this stuff doesn't warp, and it seems to reduce splitting while drying unless put into too dry an area, ie. wood heat. Wood even dries when stripped outside, uncovered, even with periodic rain on the stack. Tear down your kiln - this stuff works.

Thanks! That was the answer I've been looking for. My question was, "does wood previously treated with Cedarshield glue up well"? We are building a tea house/ workshop and I'd like to pretreat the wood first with cedarshield, then begin building the panel walls and doors.

Hey your guys ... that product in recent times has been greatly improved and taken to a more professional level by the Minnesota based Hartman Companies. It comes in totally transparent bottles of 1 gallon, 2.5 gallons and 5 gallons, plus the standard 55 gallon drum. It is trademarked and marketed under the name of Perma Shield and this product achieves truly remarkable results in a wide range of applications. It is also worth note that Perma Shield can also be used on cured concrete, stucco, mortar and other hard surface materials. The product has been well accepted in Europe, Poland and Russia and it is now being seriously considered as the all natural alternative permanent treatment for utility poles across North America. Perma Shield has also been accepted and registered within the US Government's Bio-Preferred program and register.

Is Perma Shield and Cedarshield the exact same product?

I don't think they are exactly the same but I do know that the Perma Shield is the same formulation as the Cedarshield product, with some additional properties added. I use it regularly now and use an airless spray and back rolling to apply it. I also find that the Permashield is way more professional in appearance and the way it come packed, which is very important when it is being applied to my customer's contracts. I don't know if this helps you in any way.

Does anyone have experience (good or bad) with adding a tint, colorant, or dye to the Petri-Wood or Cedarshield products? Thank you greatly for your response to sales@mysupplier.us. How would you suggest doing it?