Feasible? A Pneumatic Capsule Pipeline (PCP) for the State of California

Why before long most mail will be sent electronic. Most of what the U.S. Post office delivers is junk mail or bills I'm not in a hurry to get them.

The Post Office is not going out of business anytime soon. The introduction of email has increased messages between people, and lower the quality content too. For sending almost anything physically, it's a cheaper service than any of the commercial ones. It's use of trucks when it could be doing something innovative in transportation is what bothers me. The USPS has a long history of supporting and encouraging innovation in transportation. It's a duty of the Federal government specifically mentioned in the Constitution. ... post offices and post roads.

I like that idea!! Half of Europe runs by train!

Using the trains again for mail is not unreasonable, however would we be advanced more by having a new system, pneumatic, to handle some of our freight ? (and perhaps ultimately passengers). Rail has a lot of legacy to it. It has a big problem if its going to use new right of ways. What's wrong with a system entirely where you can start off with a blank slate and build it up. Trains are an overbuilt system for the mails. regarding catalogs, one could always charge them the actual cost to delivery, even "tax" it a bit for paper use. On the other hand, since email actually is a form of mail, why not have a 2 or 3 cent cost for each email built into your telephone's/ ISP's billing? The internet backbone and expansion still has not been paid for. hn

The sanctity of the mail is a main reason a line like you mention could not be used. Almost all the mail transported was within NYC or within the same building. These lines were underground from one building to the next. What would keep people (thieves) from diverting mail and stealing it's contents. The postal service also deploys almost all of it's long haul mail by air. Airlines that do not have a full plane love to take it because they get paid handsomely. However a few years ago DHL partnered with the Postal Service to allow mail on their planes as long as the Postal Service delivered all the mail or packages that were out of normal routes for DHL. They both saved money with this arrangement because DHL didn't have to travel 200 miles to deliver a box to a remote cabin whereas the Postal Service has to on a regular basis. If you buried the line, how would you be able to inspect it. I'd hate to have to locate a damaged pipe that was jammed somewhere along the RT.1 coastline. Maybe if the capsules had RFID systems to locate the jams. But you'd still have to get to the pipeline to repair it.

Within a city I would say it could make sense, but who knows.

Messing with the mails or mail personnel is a federal crime. The postal inspectors have a good reputation. Does mail have to be so fast that it needs to go by airplane over land in the US ? At 120 mph a capsule of mail would be cross country or any where in the country w/i 24 hours, essential without using gasoline, except very locally, let alone jet fuel. Isn't that quick enough for the cheapest service ? Also, being the postal service, one avoids some of the zoning limitations that the private sector faces in establishing right of ways. Why couldn't FedEx, DHL use the same tubes getting the security of the postal service (for a fee)? "Inspection" in this day of sensors, doesn't seem much of a technical problem to me. Am I wrong ? Might also be good to avoid the problems of winter weather in some parts of the country.

The idea has merits and could even considered a 'green proposal'. The pipeline would have to be underground however to avoid tampering, and then there is the issue of the geological active zone, an earth quake would cause nasty disruptions to the mail service. However the system could be used in less active zones perhaps following the interstate network which would also not cause land ownership issues.

I think the tube is the way all freight will be shipped in the future. Postal service where written material is packed on some postman's back is just short of the pony express. It will be non existent in a few more years.

The real issue that will never be eliminated is transporting goods, food, needs to have short travel delivery times as well as other urgent supplies. There are presently trains of trucks on the interstates, there is hardly room for cars, which is another story.

The size of a freight tube would have to be large in diameter around 10 feet or more, now the problem with pneumatic developing the amount pressure/vacuum needed in a tube that would have that amount of volume required for freight. Now do not give up the idea, there could be a tube that contains a capsule designed with a Jet aircraft engine that would push the capsule through the tube at a high rate of speed controlled by computers. The turbine end of the engine would pull a vacuum which would lower the drag and the thrust would allow the capsule to travel at the speed of sound where the tube could be made straight enough and the computer would slow capsule for turns and elevation changes. This is the future, trucks are stone age, for long hauls. I have had this idea for moving freight for a long time you are on the right track, no pun intended. Everything needed for this concept is available and well tested, standard components available.

Ingersol-Rand has a centrifugal compressor that will put out 30,000 cfm @ 30psi plus blowers that reach 24,000cfm @ 16psi. Even at 16psi one could move around 180,000 pounds through a 10ft diameter tube.

Going on the idea of the OP that the tube would run from SF to LA but assuming that cities in between would use the system as well means that at every point in the system there would have to be at least two compressors (one for south bound mail and one for north bound mail) sized somewhere around 5000-7500Hp each.

http://air.ingersollrand.com/IS/product.aspx-en-13005

Though multi stage blowers like SME series may be better suited and require less Hp to operate. http://www.hibon.com/IS/product.aspx-en-22796

But for energy savings rail would be the best way to move the mail between major hubs such as SF and LA. Recent ads claim that it takes only one gallon of fuel to move a loaded railcar 400 miles.

It's been done:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Pneumatic_Transit

http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/beach.html

I read that back in the war wwII, that the british under churchill had a pneumatic system, and it basically was just pipe and tennisballs. I think the real problem you will run into is security.. but maybe if you had vacuum sensors, you would know if anyone was 'hacking' your mail.. but its a lot of overhead to maintain.

Chris

Thanks, I know the main researcher in this area, Henry Liu, in Missouri, though the Conference proceeding are in general quite helpful, especially for providing "authority". Any thoughts of how to get the $20 million demo into the stimulus package ?

Hi All:

I replied to the pneumatic tube concept and I am glad to see more discussion on the subject. I enjoy visionary concepts that seem even laughable at first that may in some future time become our very infrastructure. This may well be one of those concepts.

Admittedly, there are issues that must overcome, however I would like to know if it is being developed by a serious company who may be addressing how such a project can be accomplished. If in fact, there is such a company, I have some unique idea's of how to deal with the Jet Engine propulsion means, used to move the cargo and the capsule design allowing it to travel at a high rate of speed, where wheels and a track would be rendered useless. The Jet Engine would not be fueled in a conventional manner or use the same fuel for that matter. Since the capsule is traveling in a tube this opens up other possibilities never used before.

An electrical induction system will be very expensive and require a guide rail the would difficult to align to the accuracy necessary for high speeds, among other problems.

Roy H.