Layoffs and Loyalty

Company loyalty only exists when the bottom line is very high. If the money isn't there you are just an expense, and the other guys that stayed are likely paid less than you.

When your salary cuts into someone elses bonus guess what gets cut.

I see this more and more..and if you are over 40 its a sure thing for the pink slip..hang in there, one door closes another opens..

Hi possum - hang in there - it's just about the $$ - there is nothing else to it

I learned yesterday that I'm maybe going to have it coming soon to me - but ya know what?

I'm excited - there is stuff out there...there is hiring taking place and who know's what's ahead.....

thats the attitude. Have to remember, other companies cut experience vs $ savings. It takes time for them to reconize the mistake, It will come full circle.

Loyalty takes a back seat to the bottom line and the noobs are probably being paid much less than the experienced engineers. Now it's time to put your network of friends, acquaintances and colleagues to work. Good Luck!

And wherever you go, make sure you're doing work that befits your experience. If you've got 20 years experience but the job only requires new-hire knowledge, then you should be somewhere else, because it's a bean counter's world these days - and employees are nothing but an expense.

To answer your question - company loyalty went the way of corporate morality.

Good luck to you!

The purpose of a corporation has always been to make money

This is only one purpose of a corporation. The best corporations have a vision beyond the bottom line. The worst are concerned only with making money.

I'm afraid company loyalty is a pretty much a one way street, most companies don't realise how incredibly loyal and proud of the company their employees initially are.
In my experience this loyalty is generally abused until eventually it dissappears and is replaced with weary cinicism. At this point the mangement will complain that the workforce isn't willing to go the extra mile.

Cynical Del

That's it, Del, clean out your desk!

That's why I start out with cynicism and never tell people who I work for. If they think you are miserable you have a good chance at keeping your job. They love to see you suffer.

Layoffs and Loyalty

I've heard of such things....but I watched (a major multinational) my employer go through this back in the '90s. I've been a contract engineer ever since. I am surprised as lots of companies use a last-in / first-out method, but it isn't universal. You are a lot more expensive than kids pooping college food.

Let us know anything we can do to help.

Get mobile early - if the job you need to keep the finances glued together is across the country, pack

Let everyone you know, know what you do and you are looking.

Join LinkedIn, was a great help to me and becoming a gathering place of recruiters. Join groups with your specialities or interests, make lots of contacts, and remember you just went on overtime. For the duration of your job-hunt you are now on unlimited over-time. Hunt.

And remember - a company really doesn't publish a job to a website until it has exhausted every other option. So if you SEE a job, it is because there are more out there they aren't talking about.

Your friends get you jobs, so make lots of friends.

And a lot of the world has been laid off, you will find a welcoming group out there happy to help.

ED

I also worked for a big multinational company in Phoenix, Minneapolis and now New Jersy.

In 93 they provided an oportunity to take unpaid time off so I took a month paid vacation and 2 months unpaid and lived and traveled in the Russian Far East with some friends who I met in Seattle in 91 during all that goodwill stuff.

When I got back the company had pretty much recovered.

They could no longer hide the fact that my work partner was overly dependent on my knowlege and experience among other things, and soon she was gone.

My daughter and her kids lived with me at the time. As I was leaving I said, "See you when I get back."

She said "No you wont. I am moving."

When I got back she opened the door.

Says I, "I though you were moving."

Said she, "I did. Twice."

Jon

A job? Wossat? Just give me a skip, and old mattress and a chance to raid the bins outside Big M. <Splutter> That's life on the streets in Baz. <cough>

There is no such thing as "loyalty" in the corporate world. You are responsible for your own welfare. Take every opportunity to get recognition in your profession...publish, attend seminars, meetings, and conferences. Network, network, network! When the opportunity arises, leave your present employer for a "better" job, however you define "better". Becoming cynical is not productive as "cynicism is the last refuge of the easily-hurt". If you want a picture of the corporate world, envision a foot stamping on a human face. forever(with apologies to the author of "1984").

It's all about the money! Those guys that stayed, get paid less than you were making! Not that this would work, but you might suggest that you would work for less, rather than get laid off! (can those guys get the job done as well, and efficient as you did)

"Survival of the fittest" - this concept is quite valid.

The only way to always be in demand is to create your own sphere. You have to have exclusive talent or experience to overcome such things as layoffs. Loyalty, in this competitive world, takes a back seat.

Look at the opportunity of utilizing your exclusivity and the world will sit up and take notice. I am sure of that.

Best of luck.

I think everyone replying to this message has been in the same situation at one time in their lives.

What's done is done. I know it sounds crass but try to look at the situation as an opportunity.

The worst part of the situation is know you are without pay. Hopefully, the company was kind enough to give you advanced notice of the layoff and you were somewhat prepared.

Do what everyone else is advising you to do. Keep in contact with everyone you have done business with. Especially outside vendors and sales reps. They move between companies and they usually know who is doing what. They can give you names of people in the inside and that will allow you to contact the managers who need the personnel and sometimes bypass the HR Resume bullshit. Even reach out to people you have crossed paths with in the past and try to find organizations that network with your craft. This is no time to be shy, find people who can help you.

Also I recommend you try to find some sort of work in the short term which is related to your trade. This allows you to stay in contact with your trade or professional community. Keeps your ear to the ground, so to speak.

I agree with the Gray-Haired Old Goat! Good answer! I got laid off in 2001 after 21 years in R&D at the same facility. They didn't just say,"Pack yer stuff an' git!", they added,"And don't EVER come back!" My separation agreement forbid me to even apply for any openings that might occur there in the future. This was standard procedure for them. They didn't value my skills enough to sign me to a non-compete contract, so I went to work for their competitors and helped them take considerable business. Most important- no violations of confidentiality or conflict of interest. They say when life gives you lemons, make lemonade? Hogwash! I can only drink so much lemonade before I'm sick of it. I try to turn adverse situations to my advantage. Life gave me lemons, so I built a lemonade stand and sold lemonade to my thirsty customers. Life handed my colleagues lemons, so I took their lemons and made more lemonade and lemon cookies to go with my lemonade.I became a consultant and contract worker and built my own research lab and pilot plant. I gave my laid-off buddies lab space to bring in projects to work on. I developed products for my laid off marketing buddy to sell. I have a mechanical engineer buddy who is out of work. I now promote my company as having an engineering capabilities. By all means make use of your network friends, sales reps, vendors, and customers (unless you are forbidden to do so by your former employer).Right now, The market is weak for full-time traditional jobs. But work still needs to get done, so there is a market for consultants and contract workers. Become what the market is seeking! I had lunch with a local technical manager, and introduced myself as the "friendly, local, neighborhood Rent-A-Chemist". Bring me in when you get in a bind and need more effort, then when the crisis passes say,"Bye-Bye", and no hard feelings. Of course, you have to pay for convenience! I'm now working with him to scale up a product I developed for a client.

There is none. Unfortunately, the way one has to look at it these days is at the end of every pay period, you and your company are even. The company doesn't owe you anything nor do you owe the company anything.

Wasn't always that way. 40 or 50 years ago, most major manufacturing companies in the U.S. were managed by engineers or other technical or business people who had come up through the ranks. They understood the company, products, markets and organization and there was a great deal of loyalty both ways. That continued until the late 70s or early 80s when accountants, MBAs, and others were brought in and gained control and, in my view, the U.S. manufacturing industry has gone pretty much downhill since.

One thing I have observed over the years is that good people who find themselves in your situation always end up in much better positions with greater potential than they would have had they remained with their former employer. That has been true, without exception.

It's called "head count" reduction and the only purpose is to preserve "executive management" perks and make their board and shareholders think they know what they are doing but in reality, it's mostly smoke and mirrors because it also mortgages the company's future. Smart, well-managed companies don't do that. Unfortunately, most companies' ideas of long range planning is this week, month or quarter performance.

Good luck! In the very near future, you may find that layoff was the best possible thing your former employer could have done for you.

In the state of Wisconsin they call it "A right to work State", you don't have to give notice, And you can be shown the door immediately But in a large layoff situations, They do have to report it and give like a 60 day notice for more the 25 employees.

Noncompete contracts has a hard time standing up in the courts.

I agree with all the rest you said. . . . well put.

Wisconsin isn't as bad as many of the Southern states, and I'd suspect anyone sharp enough to have an engineering degree has a contract, and not just there as an "employee-at-will".

No, coporate America just took a page from Iosif Vissarionovich Stalin's quote:

"Gratitude is a disease of dogs."

I went through a layoff (RIF, here, or Reduction In Force) after 17 1/2 years with one company. My boss thought I would "go postal" (his words) about it, and was worried when he found me at my desk after the layoff (we had 30 days on company time and equipment to hunt for a new job. I was just using what they provided.), but I told him I thought it was well handled, and would be to my advantage. I had previously been a UNIX system admin, and really wanted to do that again, but my company had gone completely away from that kind of work. Well, needless to say, the industry didn't need us doing what we were (that's why the layoff, after all), but it turned out UNIX admins were rare and in demand. It paid having multiple skill sets (not doing the same thing for 20 years, so that I didn't have the same year's experience 20 times, as noted earlier), and I had a new job, even in a down economy, 2 weeks after the layoff, at 180% of my former pay. Within a year, I was at 200% of the pay at which I was laid off. AND I was doing UNIX system admin. I loved it. And it really did work for the best.

That said, it was not because I'm so smart or forward thinking that I got where I was. I had been through a lot for which I had just had to say "I trust that my God knows what He is doing, even when I don't understand it". In looking back, He certainly did, and I believe He still does, if we'll take the time to trust Him to do it. He certainly did in my case.

Micah

Similarly - congrats by the way - I knew a LOT of old Cobol programmers who got called back up for Y2K.

Nothing in the toolkit is ever a waste!

And its fun getting the new knowledge, too! My wife says I'll never grow up, as long as I stay curious, and keep learning.

Micah

The only loyalty management knows of is to their own pockets and that of their cronies.

GA... all it is missing is the cardboard brown nosed A$$ kissing power mongering types in the office!

It's times like these that I'm glad I'm permanently sealed inside a suit of black armor. At least dress codes have no effect on me since I can't change my clothes.

Then again, who other than the Emperor would dare enforce any dress code on me? Only someone with a death wish, I should think......

For companies it is al about the money, the days that companies cared for their employees, all went out the door when they went public on the stock market, the stockholders only want to see a return on their money. loyaltees only reach so far

I cannot speak about Japan, but that statement is incorrect for the USA. Stocks of companies were traded for generations before they went into the "next quarter's profits trumps all other considerations" mode.

See my post #9 which details this subject.

Well maybe before but i read "Barbarians At the Gate - The Fall of RJR Nabisco" and "Liar Poker" recently and certainly since the mid 80's it changed to money and greed.

Hostile take overs, LBO's only for making money.

Precisely correct. It was the mid-80s when the accountants and financial types started driving things.

But you could see this coming a very long way off with the attitude of Alfred P. Sloan of GM, who said, "General Motors doesn't make cars, General Motors makes money."

And Roger Smith, CEO in the 1970s, under whom GM lost a lot of market share, was also a financial type.

possum Starting about 20 years ago the multi-billion dollar corporation I spent 31 years with informed the upper-echalon that 10 years would be the desired number chosen to keep anyone but the truly brilliant. It was stated that most people should experience at least two to three employment changes during their career. (Reason, hell their isn't any reason, just company policy). I'm sure this had something to do with the bean counters. Good luck will come your way, your current lose is just part of the big picture. J.Conway

Jerrell - There is nothing new about such policies. Our USA military in peacetime has always followed an "up or out" policy for its commissioned officer corps. Important to note is that after 150 odd years and the coming of serious high levels of technological skills to the military the services realized that they needed to retain people with such skills in the enlisted ranks and they created the E8 and E9 enlisted ranks as well as Limited Duty officer classifications where two "passed over" experiences would not be an invitation to retirement.

It appears that the organizational thinking of your previous employer was a little bit backward.

Ed Weldon

Check out WWW.ELANCE.COM you can make a lot of eatra money if you decide to stay with a pay cut or something.