Antique Koken Barber Chair Repair

Does your chair have an O-ring around the outside of the inner (moveable) cylinder--about an inch above the bottom? (Doubtful with a Paidar...) If yes... then replace it...

How long have you owned the chair? It's possible a well intentioned PO could have put 'hydraulic fluid' in the base...which would also be a source of your "pop/sink"... Most hydraulic fluid I've found isn't heavy enough to work properly in the base.

Finding a seal for the release valve would be difficult--at best... if yours is obviously damaged, you'll have to replace it (read: "Have one made")... most of the one's I've seen are serviceable, no matter the age of the chair.

No diagrams I'm aware of... but these are simple things... just keep track of what you're taking off (and how it fits back on) -- take digital pictures when in doubt.

Your Koken chair does not leak oil. There are no seals. It is an open system made out of cast iron. The only way oil can spill out of the hydraulic system is if you have over filled it and/or tipped the chair on an angle.

I have restored 18 Koken chairs. Some for myself but mostly for others. I truly enjoy bringing these works of art and engineering back to life. That being said, I am a little bit anal about these chairs. Here's my suggestion for house-proofing your chair.

Disassemble the base components, thoroughly (degrease) clean them and reassemble using a heavy weight oil internally. You don't need to be an engineer to twist some wrenches. I happen to like NAPA gear oil but that may be overkill. Many people use 30 weight motor oil with equal success. The cylinder housing is solid cast iron with only one way in for the oil and one way out...and that is through the top opening. Don't overfill. Now you're ready to place your chair in the house. If you're a doubting Thomas, let it sit in the garage for a week long leak test. Your wife may need a little assurance. The last chair I finished went into a beautiful lakefront home with no issues.

An easy way to move these chairs around is to separate the base from the top assembly by removing the (4) large bolts that are exposed under the seat cushion and the (1) pin (sometimes a bolt) in the recliner rod end that is attached to the bracket/casting on the back side of the calf rest and lift the top assembly until it separates from the base. Now, two people can easily lift and move the chair top assembly. I use a heavy moving blanket as a sling and set the base on it. Again, two people can lift and move it around easily. It is much easier to do the final reassembly in the chair's final location as these chairs are a little bit squirrly to move around assembled. Not to mention their shear weight.

Hope this helps you get that family heirloom on display and in use.

I'm working on my first Koken chair. I'm having trouble disassembling the pump and piston. It seems that if I can remove the hand lever I'll be able to pull the reclining shaft all the way out. Hence, allowing me to take apart the rocker arm, piston, etc. I've removed the set screw from the bottom of the handle but I can't slide it off. The handle moves freely up and down but I can't slide it off the shaft. I'm guessing that the set screw has carved a groove in the shaft over the years but am not positive. What's the trick to pulling that handle off? Also, my cylinder has two holes in it. One for the brake shoe and another and the opposite side. Is that normal?

Working from a somewhat sketchy memory here...

IIRC... you need to pull the recline mechanism off (the short shaft than connects the base to the chair along with the pieces that act on the shaft to keep it locked in place) these recline pieces are on the opposite side of the base as the pump handle... (two large bolts hold this mechanism to the bottom of the chair base along with four smaller nuts which hold a bracket to the chair footrest)

Once you get the recline pieces off, there is a nut/bolt right in the middle of the shaft (crosswise) you need to remove... (it'll be on top... in the area you would add oil to the base)

Pull a solid, inner shaft out the recline side, pull a second concentric shaft out the recline side (there may be a set screw on the base up under the recline pieces) then pull the handle out... the inner 'solid' shaft you pull out the recline side has a groove machined almost half way down it's length... pay attention to how it comes out (which side of the shaft goes toward the pump handle... like I said, the groove is machined ALMOST half way down it's length... you'll need to get the groove back in the correct position during re-assembly)

The problem I'm having is that I can't pull the entire recline mechanism all the way off. The hinged bracket that holds the reclining shafts doesn't have room to unscrew from the shaft. The top lip of the cylinder gets in the way. If I could slide the piston off of the concentric shaft I could spin the shafts all the way around, which would allow me to unscrew the reclining bracket. I've posted a couple photos hopefully they help

Dang... you got an OLD one...!

Can't say as I've ever worked on one quite like that...

The handle... if you're sitting in the chair... can you push it out--away from the chair? If so, you have a tapered pin holding the handle to the shaft... the pin would be the pivot for the handle... all the one's I've worked on had the large end of the taper to the 'back' of the chair... so I was able to tap the pin out from the front...

This may not get you all the way apart, but it's a step in the right direction...

Also, it there a set screw on the handle side of the base? Holding the shaft in?

No it only goes back and forth (up and down). I've tried slightly to pound off that hand lever with a hammer and block of wood but it didn't seem to budge. Granted I was wary of whacking away it. But it doesn't have any other nuts/bolts/screws/pins holding it in. It slides very smoothly but hopefully you have a few more suggestions because pounding it off is my last resort

Let us know if you got the handle removed. I answered your earlier post with what works for me.

I'm reading the posts from earlier today and backwards to this one. The pictures tell me that you have the same vintage chair that I'm accustomed to restoring. Did 12 in the past year. By accident, it has sort of became a passion.

Your mechanical instinct is correct. Get the pump handle off by removing (1) 1/4" setscrew on the bottom of the handle), put a pair of vice grips on the 3/4" round shaft that was in the handle casting (put a rag on the jaws so you don't booger up the shaft), rotate the shaft clockwise because the other end is a left hand acme thread that goes into the reclining clamp block. This shaft runs through the crossover casting. Once you have it out, you will be able to "angle" the crossover casting out as well. If you look at your picture, you'll see a 3/4" I.D. by about 3" long spring. Remember to put it back in during re-assembly.

Difficulties that you may encounter: 1) Handle won't come off of shaft after setscrew is removed. The setscrew end was originally screwed into a drilled hole in the shaft that is about a 1/4" deep to lock the handle to the shaft. The handle slid on the shaft and was secured in place with the setscrew. The machined hole on the inside of the handle casting is a reasonably close tolerance fit to accept the shaft. It was assembled 90-100 years ago and is probably now corroded together. Some of these assemblies may seem like they are welded together. You will need to soak this end of the handle/shaft assembly in a good penetrating oil. Put it in a pan and cover the handle/shaft area with oil. Be patient. I like PB Blaster if you can get it in your area. My worst case was soaking for three days, usually 24 hours does the trick. Every hour or two, use a hardwood block and hammer and smack the outside of the handle (opposite where you think the end of the shaft is) smartly to break the corrosion bond. I never had one that I could not get off in this manner, just some are tougher than others. I have not had to do this yet, but you could try a small wheel puller or, as a last resort, drill a 3/8" hole through handle and stop partly into the end of the shaft. This would give you access to use a drift punch to hit the shaft directly. Once you break the corrosion, you are home free. I have not seen the tapered pins that were mentioned in one of the posts.

I'm betting that you'll break this loose with penetrating oil and a hammer in a day or two. Clean it up and it will re-assemble just fine.

The two holes you are referring to in the cylinder are normal. Pay attention to the position of the brake shoe at re-assembly. Some of them are stamped "top" and some are not. The fat end goes up. The part is tapered and won't work if you put it in upside down.

Kind of a long winded explanation. Give me a call if you need to discuss it more. (George, 440-748-3525)

Wow thank you. Just the answer I was looking for. I'll be able to have at it this sunday. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes. I'll stay in touch if i run into anymore problems.

Hey Ganders, I just bought my first Koken to restore. It is an oak one, decent shape, and I have it stripped down. Thanks to you otherwise who knowss what I might of done to the handle..... I did exactly what you said with the penetrating oil and after day two, 10 Budweisers, and 50 odd stiff whacks with a block and ball pean it randomly popped off. Thank you for the tips. Any idea how to date the chairs, have not found any indication other then the patent dates on the Koken plaque on the back, last date is 1911, I guess its safe to assume that its older then 1911.

I'll be having at that handle this weekend when I get some free time, and I'm sure that will do the trick.

I do have another question. My arm rests are two seperate pieces. The bottom half is porcelain with a wood block inside of it that has a piece of felt on it. The top half is marble. In each one the front of the rest had a screw with a leather washer holding the marble to the porcelain/wood block. The back of the rest had a screw with a spacer washer through the marble so it wouldn't slide off. I can't imagine these wholes weren't covered or filled somehow but I haven't been able to find any other examples like it online anywhere.

Was there a third piece on top of the marble that simply was friction fit into the marble stone? Or was there a simple cover up?

Please add a picture of the chair base with seat base casting attached to your post. I have some old Koken chair catalogs that I may be able to find this specific chair in. I have seen Koken (2) piece armrests with the fasteners exposed on the top marble piece as the finished assembled product. They were nickel plated for appearance. I'll research the chair to try and find the "period correct" original configuration for you. Just need a picture to work with.

It's completely disassembled right now so these are the best I could do. I haven't seen any chairs quite like this one online to my knowledge yet. I've seen the seat on a couple childrens chairs but the ribbed matching base was much taller to accomodate children obviously. This is definitely an adult chair.

If you could give me any info on it that would be amazing. I have the serial numbers off most of the parts. The number under the seat I believe is 503 and the porcelain seat itself has number 546 on it.

The "leak" you describe may just be from transporting the chair (yer father didn't barber in yer garage, did he?)... many times a chair is transported with a 2-wheel dolly... slide the dolly under the chair and tilt back... not a good way to move one... To decide if this is yer case, you'll have to disassemble most of the chair... to get to where the outer cylinder attaches to the base, inside the decorative sleeve... you may have just sloshed oil over the top of the pump and now it's slowly dribbling out the bottom... Once you get the chair apart, down to the point where the outer cylinder is free from the base, stand the cylinder upright and put a quart or so of yer favorite solvent inside (the solvent will be thinner than the oil yer supposedly leaking and will flow through any 'holes' you may have in yer cylinder) let it stand that way for a day or so to determine if you do have a leak... I've only come across one chair that actually was leaking from the 'permanent' seal at the bottom of the outer cylinder... If'n ya don't have a leak, use the solvent in the cylinder to clean the cylinder out and begin re-assembling yer chair... Once you get the chair together and filled with oil (fill from the top of the chair base to about 2" below the shaft that runs across the top of the cylinder, the shaft that works the workings when yer pumping' the handle) anyway, once yer pretty sure it's not leaking, use a suction gun to pull out as much oil as you can before you try to move yer chair outta yer garage... Best way I've found to move a barber chair is to take the seat assembly off the base and move it in two large, heavy, unwieldy parts rather than one really large, really heavy, very unwieldy piece...

It's hard to tell without knowing the age of your chair (older chairs have few, if any, "seals"...

Good news is your "leak" may well be a very simple fix...

First the oil you're seeing could be from transporting your chair... older chairs aren't sealed at all... if you tipped the chair at all some oil could have spilled over the edge and it's slowly dripping down the cylinder and on to the floor...

Second you might just have too much oil in the chair to begin with... did you "refill" the chair after you got it home? The oil level is easy to check with a long screw driver (or even a piece of an oil coat hanger) and a little imagination... lower the chair as far down as it will go , remove the seat cushion and stick the "dipstick " into the workings of the chair... after you record the oil level... look under the side of the chair... the oil level needs to be lower than any of the openings on the side of the cylinder (like where the handle shaft goes across)

All the above applies only if you have a "real" barber chair (lots of Nicole plating and cast iron pieces)... if your chair is a more recent vintage you may well have some worn/torn seals... still good news though... the seals are common O-rings and are easily replaced by a shade-tree mechanic

Good luck with your chair

I'm about to start restoring my granddad's chair he used in his shop. This thread is the only resource I've found online that contains any useful information. You've all been a big help .

The chair is a Theo A Kochs model and I'm guessing it's 30s vintage. I can see where the nameplate was once nailed to the back of the chair but it was probably ripped off many years ago. Is it possible to date these chairs base on the serial numbers of the parts?

Stand by for further questions...

TC

My impossible to leak cylinder is indeed leaking. Some how the oil is leaching through the cylinder and comes out a pin hole in the flange of the base. Any ideas how to fix?

Hey there Chuck.

This thread is ten years old... I doubt that your question will be viewed by more than three or four members.

Try starting a new thread. Many of the first responses are likely to be along the line of 'Search all of CR4 for Koken', something like that.

We have had quite a few discussions about these barber chairs - near the top right corner is a box that prompts Search Community; you may get lucky if you try that site search first! If nothing seems quite the correct response, start a new thread.

Good luck!

Thanks. Nothing much in search.