Previous in Forum: E-Stop Circuits and Risk Assessment   Next in Forum: Magnetizing a Tool
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru
United States - Member - I am a Yankee Doodle Boy. Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - Old School is the best school. Safety - ESD - Safety Mgr that keeps the peace Hobbies - DIY Welding - My Motto:

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Posts: 838
Good Answers: 26

Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/17/2009 10:40 AM

Good day Ladies and Gents.

I have a new dilemma and am looking to the experts for assistance.

Our every so charitable electric service provider is changing it rules for billing which of course could result in some rather large increases in our billing. The good news is at least they are giving us a year to make the necessary corrections to help prevent the additional charges.

We are going to be required to get our build to a 96% or better PF rating or will incur an additional charge per KVAr of $1.75. Now that may not seem like a lot but when you consider the amount of power we consume per month it is quite a sum.

So the question is more who's the best when it comes to equipment. Since this is a new area for me to explore I thought about getting a bit of advice from those of you who might have already gone through this in other states where it is already required. I have done a bit of Googling on the matter and have gotten a good deal of information on calculations and estimated savings.

So lest start the whirlwind of chatter and if you can shed some light on this project I would be ever so grateful. I would definitely like some valued experience from some of you who have already been through this as well as some perhaps better explanations as to what the systems do that aren't coming from a salesman.

Thanks in advance for the much needed information. Long winded explanations are welcome

__________________
If necessity is the mother of invention then is laziness the mother of necessity?
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: India
Posts: 333
Good Answers: 6
#1

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 2:46 AM

DEAR SIR,

YOU REQUIRE AUTO MATIC POWER FACTOR CORRECTION PANEL. ELECTRICAL CONTROL PANEL BUILDER SUPPLIES THE SAME.

WHAT IS THE LOAD IN YOUR SYSTEM ?

kva DEMAND ?

WITH THIS, YOU MAY FIX UP YOUR REQUIREMENTS.

REGARDS

__________________
Exploring the Science of Electricity
Register to Reply
3
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#2

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 4:37 AM

There are several ways to go about this. They fall into 3 main categories: Bulk pf correction, "At-Load" pf correction, and Automated pf correction.

Bulk correction is by far the cheapest to implement, but the most risky. It means that you connect a large amount of caps and leave them connected all the time. You determine the amount by looking at average pf over a long period of time and determining an optimum kVAR needed. The risk is, if your plant load changes a lot, you can end up over correcting, creating resonance problems and doing damage to connected equipment, especially other things that have capacitors such as VFDs and power supplies etc. So the long range cost of ownership might actually end up being worse.

Automated pf correction essentially does a similar thing, but measures the pf continuously and adds or subtracts kVARs using either a control system with multiple contactors switching banks of capacitors in and out, or controls the field strength of a Synchronous Motor acting as a Condenser. The disadvantage with the contactor method is that if anything goes wrong with the control system (and it happens more than people want to admit), you end up with not enough kVARs, which exposes you to penalties anyway, or once again too much as above. The downside of the Synchronous Condenser route is that t s the most expensive to install, and if you don't have a continuous load that can be connected to the motor, you end up wasting a lot of energy in just spinning it open shaft. That means it only makes sense for plants that have a large continuous load requirement, such as a process compressor or feed pump.

At-load correction is, in my opinion, the best option for most people. That means you look at and evaluate every inductive load and determine the right amount of capacitance to connect to it, then connect it as close to the load as possible. For most Across-the-Line motor controllers, that is really simple and safe to implement because you just connect the caps down stream of the motor starter contactor. When the contactor is open, the caps are off-line; no chance of over correction, and when the contactor closes, the motor's inductance is then immediately compensated for in the system. For loads with electronic soft starters however, you must connect the caps only after the electronics are out of the system, so a separate PFC control contactor is needed. But that added cost is minor. The down side of At-Load correction s that it means mounting and wiring a lot of separate capacitors, which increases the installed cost, often making this the highest capitalization choice. I still like it best however, because over the years I have repaired or replaced a LOT of VFDs in plants with automated PFC control systems and Bulk correction.

Good luck. And if you like, here s a link to another resource that basically says the same thing. LM Photonics PF corection site. That website also has a link to their own forum in which there is a section specifically devoted to PFC correction if you have additional questions.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Associate
United States - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 52
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 9:24 AM

I'd tend to agree that at load would be a good place to start. There are probably a few large motors that are hurting you the most. In which case you install power factor correction at the motor, either with caps or with VFDs. You could also consider replacing some medium size induction motors if they are 30 or more years old. New motors meet higher efficiency and PF standards. If you have any voltage control at all (transformer tap changers), you'll want to make sure you watch it close. Letting the voltage get too far above or below nominal can have a detrimental effect on PF and efficiency. I'd also put in my own metering and data logger. Start compiling some historical data. You'll need it for project justification or even to work a deal with the power company. It may be that you can get them to give you a break on the PF except for the system peak hours, ~7a-9a and ~5p-7p.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - I am a Yankee Doodle Boy. Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - Old School is the best school. Safety - ESD - Safety Mgr that keeps the peace Hobbies - DIY Welding - My Motto:

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Posts: 838
Good Answers: 26
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 9:58 AM

Thanks for the options explanation. So far what I have been looking at it the Automated full building PF correction. I am finding so far that it may be the best fit for us, as we do not have what would be a continuous steady load even when the whole plant is running. We are a printing facility with multiple presses that are constantly being started and stopped throughout the day at different intervals.

The 2 companies that I have looked at so far are Benshaw and Electrotech. Both tout have fully automated control systems with filtering and alarms for functionality. I run a number of inverter drives on motors here as well as VFD's. Added to that we have about 40 PC's throught the building and multiple PLC controlled machines.

My input voltage to the building is 480v from a 500KVA transformer. this comes into a 1200A distribution panel and is distributed after that into a centrally located MDP that feed all the step down transformers in the building. We are using voltages at 480v(machinery), 277v(Flourescent lighting), 208v(more machinery), 120v(typical office equipment). The electric company tells me that we are running at about 65 - 70% PF currently.

The maximum load we usually get on the building in the middle of summer is about 520 amps with everything running. The main reason I am looking into the full building Automated system is convenience. Being the only person in the building to take care of all the machines and the facility equipment, I have a lot to keep up with already and I would really like to have a set it and forget it type system. But I can see your point with reliability. I am hoping for a smart systew that will tell me whats wrong when it's wrong.

Please let me know

__________________
If necessity is the mother of invention then is laziness the mother of necessity?
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - I am a Yankee Doodle Boy. Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - Old School is the best school. Safety - ESD - Safety Mgr that keeps the peace Hobbies - DIY Welding - My Motto:

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Posts: 838
Good Answers: 26
#8
In reply to #5

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 10:35 AM

Sorry forgot to include some information on the load side.

Not sure how important it is in detirmining correction but we have 19 UV curing reactors for drying the ink after its printed. All have ballasts and aside from the varying lengths on the bulbs all generate about 9600 watts per unit of very intense UV light. These are a constant throughout the day and are only turned off at lunch and quitting time. Other than that they run about 20 hours per day 5 days a week.

__________________
If necessity is the mother of invention then is laziness the mother of necessity?
Register to Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - Specialized in power electronics

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada.
Posts: 1372
Good Answers: 80
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 11:07 AM

It seems that a large fraction of your loads generate harmonics. This can be a big problem with standard capacitor banks. You will most likely need de-tuned capacitor banks to resist to the harmonic currents and avoid resonances.

You can contact the company called "Inelap S.A. de C.V." for custom equipment and harmonic analysis. I have worked with their equipment in the past with good results in difficult industrial environment.

Power factor compensation system are a double-edged sword, make sure you deal with competent people. If the salesperson says it's easy, you only plug the capacitor bank here and the problem solve, call somebody else...

Good luck.

__________________
Experienced is earned, common sense is taught, both are rare essentials of life.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Meherrin Virginia
Posts: 319
Good Answers: 6
#3

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 9:12 AM

Depending on the amount of money involved and your peak load requirements, you may want to revisit some of the ideas they had in the 1920's.

One scheme used back then was to install generators as sets, both generators would have dis-connect couplings between the prime mover and generator. The operation method was; when synchronous condenser operation was desired one unit would be dis-connected mechanically. The coupled unit would be started on turning gear, the uncoupled unit (synchronous condenser unit) would be electrically tied to the coupled unit (power producer) and both units brought to line speed and synchronized. Once they were on the line both could be excited separately.

The beauty of it was that if you really needed power you could couple up the odd unit and generate real power.

Or so my feeble old memory tells me.

__________________
If you fail to follow through, you will fail.
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - I am a Yankee Doodle Boy. Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - Old School is the best school. Safety - ESD - Safety Mgr that keeps the peace Hobbies - DIY Welding - My Motto:

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Posts: 838
Good Answers: 26
#6
In reply to #3

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 10:05 AM

Very interesting concept. Sounds like a coslty initial investment, although I have been trying to get my company to invest in a backup generator.

__________________
If necessity is the mother of invention then is laziness the mother of necessity?
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eastern Kansas USA
Posts: 1503
Good Answers: 128
#7

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 10:10 AM

double j b,

Lots of good advice from Jraef. I would amend his comments a little:

  • When you add PFC to individual motors, if it is located after the contactor and wired in parallel with the motor, you need to resize or adjust the overload relays for the reduced full-load current. This is a code requirement (either directly or indirectly because the PFC manufacturers say to do so).
  • If you have some medium or large motors and a host of smaller ones, you can consider individual correction for the large motors and a small amount of additional PFC's that are connected to the group(s) of motors with separate contactors and separate controls.
  • I believe that synchronous motors get less attention than they deserve. True, they have additional maintenance requirements because of the excitation requirements, but they are capable of infinite control of the PF correction, instead of step-wise control. Also, you do not have individual contactors to worry about.

I'm glad your utility is giving customers time to prepare.

--JMM

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Valdosta, GA
Posts: 361
Good Answers: 8
#10

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 12:07 PM

This is a bit off topic but have you considered investing in a wind and solar system instead of a backup generator? This would pay for itself over time and then reduce your electricity costs in the future. I would think that Oklahoma would be a good candidate location for such a green approach. I would bet also that there would be some government incentives to implement this now.

__________________
Always use protection.
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - I am a Yankee Doodle Boy. Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - Old School is the best school. Safety - ESD - Safety Mgr that keeps the peace Hobbies - DIY Welding - My Motto:

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Posts: 838
Good Answers: 26
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Automatic Power Factor Correction Systems

03/18/2009 12:25 PM

Wind and solar is a good idea. Its a bit out of my realm of expertise, i.e. sizing of the system and all the engineering that goes with it.

Isn't it a bit cosly to get started as well? I have also heard that the ROI is pretty far out there.

Right now I am concentrating on getting the PF under control but I appreciate the suggestion it is food for thought.

__________________
If necessity is the mother of invention then is laziness the mother of necessity?
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 11 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

double_j_b (4); harry potter (1); jconn_ETEC_05 (1); jmueller (1); JRaef (1); Keywalker (1); marcot (1); otha (1)

Previous in Forum: E-Stop Circuits and Risk Assessment   Next in Forum: Magnetizing a Tool

Advertisement